Forums: Index > Watercooler > King beyond the wall
Any thoughts of who the king of the wall is? I believe it to be Benjen Stark...--Unsigned comment by IP user.
There is no mystery here; they have said repeatedly in the show that the King Beyond the Wall is Mance Rayder.--Opark 77 (talk)08:45, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
- What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. No, there was no mystery about who the "king beyond the wall" is, Mance Rayder. Indeed, frequently they refer to the character and the title at the same time, "Mance Rayder, the King Beyond the Wall", i.e. when Ygritte and Jon are discussing how Mance mecame King Beyond the Wall. Yet somehow in your thought processes you concluded that this was a mystery and that he's really Benjen Stark?
- Do you...conceptually understand that you can type terms into a search engine on this wiki? Search "King beyond the wall" and you get the page on "King Beyond the Wall", where is directly and clearly states that Mance Rayder is the current King Beyond the Wall.
- How the heck did you not understand that Mance Rayder is King Beyond the Wall, when they repeatedly state that he is? You considered this a mystery, yet never typed "King Beyond the Wall" into a search engine? And somewhere along the way you thought this was presented as a mystery?
- THIS IS NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION. I expect an answer.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:42, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
- That's a bit overly harsh. I've been reading through the books after getting hooked on the TV series myself, but I remember having wondered if Benjen Stark may have become the King Beyond the Wall somehow as well, before I began reading. I can't remember any specific times in the series so far where it was mentioned, other than the scene you specified. Furthermore, since Mance Rayder hasn't been introduced or mentioned aside from saying that he is the King Beyond the Wall and formerly of the Night's Watch, to someone who hasn't read the books it could seem like an alias. He's mentioned a lot more in the first 2 books, including once before Benjen Stark goes missing, if I recall correctly. Just my 2 cents. But it is Mance Rayder and it's been announced that he will be portrayed by Ciarán Hinds.--Padenton (talk) 15:03, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, this comment warranted being unapologetically harsh. No, you were in the tiniest of minorities to leap to the silly conclusion that Benjen Stark is the King Beyond the Wall. Benjen goes missing in episode 6, "A Golden Crown", while they first mention Mance Rayder in episode 5, "Cripples, Bastards, and Broken things".
- The one small nuance is that they didn't actually say both at the same time, "Mance Rayder is the King Beyond the Wall" until season 2 episode 7, " A Man Without Honor", when Ygritte is talking about him with Jon. Even so, they directly stated that "Mance Rayder" is the King Beyond the Wall. You have to pay attention. If you're looking for a show that spoon-feeds you character identities really slowly and using a laugh track to walk you through what's going on, look somewhere else. This is a dense book adaptation with a cast of hundreds and should not be dumbed down. No, they made it pretty clear that Mance is the king beyond the wall. No, they never intimated or even hinted that it could be Benjen. Yikes, where were you guys when they even announced that a different actor (Julius Caesar from Rome) is playing Mance? --The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:03, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
- Alliser Thorne mentioned "Mance Rayder" briefly in s01e05, and "king beyond the wall" is unmentioned, nor is the fact that he is formerly of the Night's Watch. His name is simply dropped in the middle of Thorne giving Jon Snow a hard time. Then Mance Rayder is unmentioned for an entire season. I'm not saying the series should be dumbed down, I have no complaints about the pacing. But you find me a TV Series that introduces as many thoroughly-defined characters as quickly, and then you try to keep up. I don't think even LOTR has as large a cast of major characters. I gather from a few of your comments that you had read the books before watching the HBO Series. Not everyone has. With that advantage, you know all about all the characters (to the point that's been published thus far), but for someone who hasn't read the books before seeing the series, it's quite overwhelming. You can't really expect someone who isn't familiar with characters that haven't appeared yet, and hasn't read the books, to remember every detail about a character that has only been mentioned in 2 scenes, one of which was a brief namedrop. Not everyone has the time to sit down and focus entirely on the TV and every single word that is said in each episode.
- The OP probably didn't pay attention to the casting announcements. It's not linked on the main page other than that video, they're all in the Season 3 page. The casting announcement was also just made 3 weeks ago. He/she may not check other aSoIaF fan sites for fear of spoilers. As for myself, I was watching the series for the first time, had probably seen up to Blackwater, and this was back in May, before they announced any casting, let alone Mance Rayder. Did I really think it was Benjen Stark? Probably not. But I thought that might be another twist the series might take. It doesn't matter if it was never intimated or hinted that it could be Benjen Stark. That's why it's speculation. No one is leaping to conclusions. The OP was clearly guessing.
- Now, since in the 2nd paragraph of the first chapter of Game of Thrones(Bran I), it says "Robb thought he was a wildling, his sword sworn to Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall.", it's a little more obvious to anyone who has read the books, as Benjen Stark hadn't even been introduced at that point, let alone gone missing. --Padenton (talk) 03:37, September 7, 2012 (UTC)