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Use of images

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I am in a disagreement with QueenBuffy about the use of images. Specifically the use of images from an Entertainment Weekly (EW) photo shoot made available last week. QueenBuffy has worked hard on uploading those images and adding them to articles. The whole set can be found at our season 2 article. I had some concerns about the way the images were used:

  1. They are the property of EW and we do not have permission to use them. We can make an argument that they are fair use images but I think that necessitates crediting the source wherever they are used.
  2. They show several cast members in costume but not with the same hair and makeup that they wear in character so I think it is misleading to say they are images of the characters. Likewise while they were produced to advertise season 2 they are not images of season 2 and instead were produced independently by EW in the post production period.

I began a process of renaming the images to mention EW, adding source information to their description, adding the fairuse licensing tag ({{fairuse}}), removing the categories Image (Season 2) and Image (Character) and ensuring that Image (Promotional) was used (which it already was in all cases) for the images themselves. I then checked that on the pages the images were being used they had an appropriate caption noting their source. For images in infoboxes I swapped them with a suitable image in the image gallery so that I could add a caption.

QueenBuffy left me a message saying that she preferred the EW images. I explained my reasoning about using the images carefully but I think we still disagree. I wonder if our fellow editors might be able to help us to build a consensus?

--Opark 77 10:55, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

I say list them as promotional images. But they fit at the character infoboxes, at least for now, until better looking material is released.--Gonzalo84 15:09, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

  • Well, you know where I stand on it. I think it's okay to use their promotional images as infobox pics. They just stand out and look brilliant. (Beside some are already being used, like Arya's, etc. The one of Jon Snow and Tyrion for example are just so epic! lol --QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 15:26, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

They are promotional images from EW, not HBO, and should not be used in infoboxes, as they depict the actors, not the characters (as noted, some have different hairstyles/hair colours - most notably Nikolaj Coster-Waldau - to their characters). The magazine covers can be used with fair use. The other images' use at all is dubious as they are copyrighted by EW. Remember that we have specific blanket permission from HBO to use their images, which is not the same as blanket permission to use all GoT images everywhere. If people want to use the other EW images, then their origin (EW) must be listed. I would also advise keeping the image sizes down (the sizes at the moment appear okay).--Werthead 16:39, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Speaking -strictly- from a user standpoint, my personal preference is to have all the images be as consistently similar in visual style as possible. If there were nice photoshoot-style images for all the main and recurring characters - correctly shown in full costume/makeup - then that would be great. Since that is basically never the case with a TV series, I think I prefer having screenshot images (of their most recent look) from actual scenes. In keeping with that, I think we should work to get better screenshots so that the images are all the same dimensions, and are all showing each character at approximately the same size/distance. This is a tall order, I know, but hopefully with the new season we'll be able to grab better shots of some of the more obscure characters. Either way, we definitely should never have character images showing the actors in anything other than full costume/makeup - as they would appear in an episode.
As far as the actual use of the EW images here, I'm inclined to look at it from their perspective. If I were EW, there's no way I'd grant use of them to us. They use theirs to sell magazines and adspace on their site, and while the users of this wiki aren't trying to do that themselves, Wikia is. Obviously, they are not a wiki site, and we are not an entertainment magazine, but we are in competition with them for "hits," and therefore ad revenue. If we use them anyway, we're clearly treading in a "fair use" grey area, which could be argued until both sides are blue in the face. I think it sort of boils down to the question of- how good do we feel about using these images? On top of that I cite Opark's point that these are post-production images done by EW for EW. They are designed to look dramatic, and "pretty" in order to sell magazines, not to be 100% accurate. They look good, but the attention to detail where actual onscreen looks are concerned is just not there. I don't mean to come across as being overly critical, but I think using them actually brings our legitimacy as an encyclopedic reference down a hair.
If the images are from HBO, of course we still want attribution in place, but they want us to use them. This whole wiki is like one big free billboard for the show, generating new interest, and feeding the addiction of already faithful viewers. So long as we keep providing accurate, reliable info about the show, I'm sure HBO will continue to welcome the free publicity.
--XD1 20:00, March 18, 2012 (UTC)
  • So do you think we need to go ahead and remove every EW image that was uploaded? I can start rolling back the images I added. --QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 21:38, March 18, 2012 (UTC)
I don't think we need to go that far. I think we should limit their use to the blog post about EW releasing them and the season 2 page for now.--Opark 77 21:43, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

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