Greatjon and Red Wedding in the TV continuity
- That means we won't get any Hother Whoresbane or Mors Crowfood?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:53, March 23, 2014 (UTC)
- (I'm back) - I know. Taking GreatJon prisoner sets up the entire subplot with how House Umber reacts to Bolton rule for multiple books after this; that they would have fought the Boltons but they kept Greatjon hostage so they couldn't (or rather, half serve the Boltons unwillingly, the other half fight because they say Greatjon would gladly lay down his life rather than submit to the Boltons).
- This also reveals that Cogman seems to be the one writing the Blu-ray featurettes about the progress of the war, maps and such (I don't have the Blu-rays so I haven't seen those, just the animated featurettes, which he does write). So at least we know that writer-level people are actively paying attention to those - it wasn't delegated to some HBO marketer.
- We'll see how this goes, but frankly...as I've said before, if the actor that plays Greatjon can't appear in Season 2, that's a blow, but fine. When he then says he can't return for Season 3? Recast the character. He doesn't have major stuff to do after that (at least in the published books).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:20, March 23, 2014 (UTC)
While the actor was unavailable in Seasons 2 and 3....and I think that by Season 3 they should have simply recast him because Greatjon doesn't reappear after that....
....I suspect that, at the start of Season 3, they realized that looking ahead to Season 5 or so, it might be awkward to just have Brynden Tully as the only recognizable character during the Siege of Riverrun. Those chapters only feature Jaime's perspective, not the garrison inside. Well in the past, they've invented recurring minor characters for main characters to talk to, rather than have the main character just giving a long monologue to empty space (i.e. putting Ros there so Littlefinger has someone to talk to).
So around the beginning of Season 3, I suspect they may have thought "crap, we can't get the actor back for this season either. Should we recast him? Well, wait...maybe we should keep him at Riverrun, so Brynden Tully has someone to interact with on the Tully side of the siege."
This isn't the worst idea, and I realize it was actor scheduling beyond their control, but dammit, Greatjon's desperate attempt to fight off the Freys was one of the highlights of the Red Wedding (I also miss the death run of Dacey Mormont, but I understand that they hadn't introduced her at all by that point, time constraints, etc. I get that)...though Greatjon being free will impact the later Bolton storylines (the only reason the Umbers aren't fighting the Boltons tooth and nail is because Greatjon is a political hostage).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:13, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
Cogman on Greatjon Umber - Season 6
To reiterate, back in March 2014 in Season 4, Bryan Cogman tweeted:
"Our Greatjon wasn't at the RW. His whereabouts explained in the S2 supplemental material..." https://twitter.com/b_cogman/status/446300694090637312
"well, keep watching! But he wasn't captured at the RW in our continuity." https://twitter.com/b_cogman/status/446329941031124992
Yesterday, Cogman surprisingly responded to a Twitter message I sent to him about Greatjon Umber. To clarify his previous statements in light of comments in Season 6 that he was dead - i.e. should we now assume that Greatjon died at the Red Wedding, "off-screen"?
"He wasn't at RW in show continuity. Didn't die there. Don't think I tweeted he was at Riverrun, though... the S2 blu 1/2"
"discusses his whereabouts after S1, I think. Special features. Anyway, he didn't die at the RW." https://twitter.com/b_cogman/status/733156631848980481
(Yes, Cogman is correct, the prior tweets actually never mentioned him being at Riverrun with the Blackfish).
First - how should we handle this?
Second...it's odd that even now he's insisting Greatjon didn't simply die "off-screen" at the Red Wedding, even though this would be a convenient - very convenient - way to write out the character. Why keep insisting he died in some other unexplained circumstances?
Could this feed the theory that the Umbers are planning to betray the Boltons, as the Manderlys were in the novels?
I.e. later this season when we see Riverrun, could it be revealed that Greatjon was in fact alive the entire time?
I know it's theorizing but...why wouldn't Cogman simply go with Greatjon dying off-screen at the Red Wedding, a situation which causes no contradictions whatsoever?