Braavosi Ancestry

Its interesting that Petyr Baelish is the great-grandson of a Braavosi mercenary. I understand that as the Master of Coin, he borrowed money from, among other parties, the Iron Bank of Braavos. I wonder if he deliberately put the crown in debt, so that the Iron Bank would fund rebellions in Westeros against the Iron Throne in the future? One of those rebellions, perhaps, would involve him after he becomes the consort of the Regent Lysa Arryn of The Vale?. --Fenrir51 (talk) 12:08, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

There is a strong theory that Baelish was intentionally driving the crown into debt while embezzling large amounts for himself. However, separate from that, there really is no reason to think that he even remotely has any ties or allegiance to Braavos; I don't think he's even particularly fond of Braavos. It was quite a few generations ago. Braavos just happens to also have the largest bank in the known world, bigger than those of the other eight Free Cities put together. Nothing particularly suspicious about that (if you're going to get someone in debt, borrowing from the Iron Bank of Braavos is obvious).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:53, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
I don't mean that he's secretly in service to Braavos, just that he might know people from that city-state, maybe familial contacts. Then again, he may just be acquainted with agents from a branch of the Iron Bank operating in King's Landing. Anyway, as a fourth-generation descendant of an immigrant, I see what sorts of assets, places and peoples he knows, to rise in Westerosi society, while covering up his foreign origins, such as replacing his family sigil of the Braavosi colossus' head with that of a mockingbird, and using his influence with Lysa Arryn.

Mockingbird sigil

Towards the end of the article, it mentions the mockingbird only appears on the sails of his boat. It may be only a minor correction, but in Season 4 Episode 1, when Prince Oberyn Martell and Tyrion leave Baelish's brothel through a rear exit, the mockingbird appears engraved in the stone above the exit door they use. SyrilHarmonia (talk) 11:28, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

Rule over the Riverlands

"It now rules over The Riverlands." Whaaat?? That's the Freys :) Littlefinger hasn't been close to the Riverlands. Duh - 00:03, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

Book information not yet confirmed in the TV series. Remember that in the Season 2 finale, Tywin promised to reward Littlefinger by making him lord of Harrenhal, and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands - though the Riverlands were (mostly) controlled by the Stark-Tully alliance at the time.

In the books, the Freys are so universally despised for hosting the Red Wedding (even more than the Boltons, because the Freys were the hosts) that the Lannisters keep them at arm's length. As Tyrion pointed out in the Season 3 finale, "Walder Frey gets all the credit...or all the blame, depending on your point of view."

So in the fourth book (which will be Season 5) some Freys are meeting with the Lannisters and one insists that Jaime treat him with more respect because their father is ruler of the Riverlands....and Jaime counters by calling him an idiot and pointing out that Tywin never officially granted Walder Frey the title of "Lord Paramount of the Rivlerands", which is still nominally held by Petyr Baelish. The Lannisters DO promise to give the Freys Riverrun (if they can defeat the besieged Tully garrison)...and Riverrun has rich lands but they thought they'd get ALL of the Riverlands. They got snubbed.

Littlefinger, meanwhile, basically forgets entirely about the Riverlands. Recall that he's this boy from a poor noble family in the Vale who was sent to foster at Riverrun, became obsessed with Catelyn Tully, and then felt "betrayed" by the Tullys when he was rejected for a political marriage-alliance she had to make with House Stark.

The Riverlands are a devastation now. They were a warzone, now it's Lord of the Flies or Apocalypse Now or Great Depression Dustbowl or worse. All of the crops have been burned out, there's no social order, roving bandits owing allegiance to no one are rampaging everywhere -- the Lannisters took such severe losses from Robb Stark that even after they "win" they don't have enough soldiers to police the Riverlands. This isn't even "armed insurrection" - the lords of the Riverlands have mostly surrendered. But the chaos is so great that they can't control the roving bands of bandits (former soldiers, conscripts, and refugees turned into looters).

I strongly suspect that Littlefinger actually INTENTIONALLY paid no attention to the Riverlands - he never even sets foot there after being granted the title. It was nothing more than a stepping stone title so he could be of a high enough social rank to marry Lysa, lady of the Vale. But I think that afterwards he INTENTIONALLY makes no effort to restore order to the Riverlands...letting thousands of refugees die out of some perceived warped revenge against the Riverlands and House Tully (despite the fact that the Tullys were only one of several Houses).

The thing you have to remember about Littlefinger is that for all of his cunning he's kind of insane. He'd burn down the realm if he could call himself king of the ashes. While he does want to call himself "king"....his ultimate driving motivation is petty revenge...on what? The Starks and Tullys? "The nobility" In general? For that matter he hates the other Vale lords who dislike him because he's from a minor House. He just hates everyone.

The scariest thing about Littlefinger is the possibility that he has no actual goal but is like the Joker in The Dark Knight: just screwing up the Seven Kingdoms as much as possible to ensure that as many people as possible will die in the coming winter, after he's started so many wars that they don't have enough resources left to survive it.

All because Catelyn Tully didn't love him, and was then denied him - he has this warped sense of entitlement about it. Well that and Lysa DID sleep with him and get pregnant, but her father made her have an abortion and sent Littlefinger back to the Vale....but Littlefinger never even liked Lysa and I doubt he really cared about the unborn child he never had.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:29, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

I hope Season 5 clears this up. The scene where Jaime mocks some Freys by pointing out that Littlefinger is still titular lord of the Riverlands is due very soon.

Of course, the Freys are still the main Lannister "agents/enforcers" in the Riverlands, just as the Boltons are in the North, it's just that they snubbed the Freys and didn't want to give them an elevated title.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:30, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

The thing is, Tywin never proposes to make Baelish Lord Paramount of the Trident in the show, and in fact, the title itself is never mentioned on-screen. In Season 2 Joffrey gives Harrenhal to Littlefinger. In Season 3 Tywin states that as the Lord of Harrenhal, Littlefinger is now a suitable marriage candidate for Lysa. In Season 4 Sansa questions Littlefinger's motives for betraying the Lannisters, pointing out that Joffrey made him the Lord of Harrenhal. Why would she bring up Harrenhal, and not the fact that they gave him rule of the entire Riverlands. The fact of the matter is we have an official source (the Viewer's Guide) that explicitly names Walder Frey as Lord of the Trident, and this is backed up by the Histories and Lore featurette from S3, and by the farmer's dialogue with Arya and the Hound in "Breaker of Chains". Time to face reality. We can't keep calling ourselves a guide to the TV show if we just ignore it every time they change something in a way we don't like.--The-Boy 11:26, July 4, 2014 (UTC)
This is on the list of stuff we'd ask about. I do think the scene between Jaime and Frey representatives, hopefully in Season 5, will clarify this. The TV show itself just calls Walder Frey "Lord of Riverrun"; didn't the farmer just vaguely say the Freys are running things now? ....if I'm overruled on this by the rest of you guys, then I'm overruled on this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:44, July 4, 2014 (UTC)
Anymore thoughts on this? I'd like to resolve the matter fairly soon.--The-Boy 13:03, July 16, 2014 (UTC)