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Talk:House Florent

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Family treeEdit

Is it too early to start working on a family tree template for the Florents? They are a big house and most of the primary members haven't actually been introduced yet.--The Dragon Demands 20:41, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

yes, its too early and we don't know which Florents will be featured or mentioned. I just added Melessa because of the indirect mention Samwell makes of her.--Gonzalo84 20:43, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I agree with both decisions.--The Dragon Demands 20:47, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
Seconded, it would be very sparse at present. Worth considering though and possibly worth revisiting next year.--Opark 77 21:15, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Axell updateEdit

I know no actual trees and I get it and don't want to be "admins are to be ignored" type of contributor, but just a broad and simple sketch without templates as a compromise since it's much easier to just show.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Axell Florent
 
Stannis Baratheon
 
Selyse Florent
 
Imry Florent
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Shireen Baratheon
  • Axell is tricky since he is both called Lord Florent and Ser Axell in the same episode. But is anybody really disagreeing that he is a Lord and head of House Florent therefore the senior male-line descendant of House Florent. If he is a Lord, he can't an uncle (who is the first-born son) also be alive. Seems like Alester Florent is joining the long list of character that the show isn't using or maybe a better way to put it is that he was merged into Lord Axell Florent.

The ones to exclude just from the family tree.

  • Selyse's parents. We don't know how TV continuity has changed the book continuity by the merger of her uncles into just Selyse's brother.
  • Rylene Florent is Shireen's cousin yet the family tree currently shows her as her great-aunt. It's kind of hard to square how you can be both. I'm not questioning that how Rylene is related in the books and should for certain be mentioned in in the books section, but the books have their own wiki and the main section should take what the show says as the uncomplicated truth. I know there are times when that the show contradicts itself, but Book Rylene being Shireen's great aunt and TV Rylene being a cousin from unsure parents doesn't seem like one.
  • Melessa Tarly is a mentioned just as Samwell talks about his mother, but he or anybody else has said not anything about her. I feel like there would be too much fanfic leaps to make the TV continuity square up with the book continuity. For certain mention the cousin connection in the in the books section, but just skip it in the tree since Axell and Alester being merged and made Selyse's brother again makes how everybody else is related a bit up in the air.

I wouldn't be writing this out if it wasn't what I thought was correct, but I am not implying this is the sole way that all of this must be done and you're an idiot if you disagree by any means and hope it isn't inferred that way. I'd love to be questioned, have to clarify/defend ideas I've put out and have my mind changed by admins or follow newcomers. Ardilaun (talk) 02:41, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

These are great points; wanted to give you a headsup that I am not ignoring your well detailed post. Juggling IRL work at the moment - this is on the "to do" list.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:13, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

There's no honest doubt that the code writing for them is rather tedious and time can be spend on bigger issues for the GoT Wiki. I tried typing it out if you like it? Ardilaun (talk) 19:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

{{familytree/start|style=font-size:85%;line-height:100%;}}{{familytree| | | | |,|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|v|-|-|.|}}{{familytree| | | | AXEL | | STAN |y| SELY | | IMRY | AXEL={{familytree/Axell Florent}}|STAN={{familytree/Stannis Baratheon 2}}|SELY={{familytree/Selyse Baratheon 2}}|IMRY={{familytree/Imry Florent}}}}{{familytree | | | | | | | | | | |!| | }}{{familytree| | | | | | | | | | SHIR | SHIR={{familytree/Shireen Baratheon}}}}{{familytree/end}}

First CousinsEdit

Would anybody be oppose to me switching "first cousin" on how Melessa Tarly is related to Selyse, Imry and Axell to just "kinswoman" and vice versa? Seems neutral and excluding the in the books section. Ardilaun (talk) 19:46, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Yes I would oppose it. We will assume it is the same relationship as in the books until stated to be otherwise.
It has been stated otherwise. Axell Florent was Selyse's uncle and Melessa's father is burnt at Dragonstone. If that relationship has been shown to be different, it puts the other ones based on those relationship up in the air too. Ardilaun (talk) 00:36, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

To reiterate: I am aware of and indeed agree with your concerns, but the TV show is handling House Florent so confusingly that it requires my full attention to figure out how the TV-Florent tree has been changed from the book-Florents. I'm studying for end-of-semester language tests at present and just skimming through stuff on here. I know that might not be very consoling but it's better than leaving no response at all, apparently ignoring you, and then popping up again two weeks from now. It's not as if the Florents are going anywhere...also, the other reason I'm slow to react on this, as well as the Freys, is because I seriously hope that the remaining seven episodes of this season will provide new information to clear this up...after which we have another 10 months with no new information. Why get into a debate over the family tree now, when next episode might fix it?

This attitude is borne of past experience: back in Season 3, episode 3, Robb Stark sarcastically said that Martyn Lannister was Tywin's father's brothers grandsons, etc. This led to major debate over whether they were changed from simply being his nephews in the TV continuity. Only two weeks later, episode 5 confirmed that they actually were his nephews, and he was being sarcastic. So they might mention more about House Florent and the Freys before this season is over -- which is why I am hesitant to make final decisions about their TV continuity family tree until we've finished Season 4. Anything we do in the next 7 weeks will be provisional.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:45, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Only from dialogue from the show (which oddly enough are not the same in the books), the audience knows that Selyse has dead brother named Axell and either a niece or more distant cousin named Rylene since "Cousin Rylene" doesn't automatically mean first cousin. Neither of those things are currently shown on House Florent tree which just seems odd.
With your example from S3 not applying to House Florent is that it was the TV show itself contradicting itself as oppose to contradicting the book continuity. Also Martyn & Willem Lannister were mentioned and then came back in another episode while Lord Axell is dead and not coming back. Things are changed all the time prior to the season finale so I don't know why this one.
You're got your thesis stuff (is your thesis going to be posted online?) so I'm not really rushing or anything, but just interested in this kind of stuff.Ardilaun (talk) 00:36, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

SigilEdit

In the article it is mentioned that "The Florent sigil is a red gold fox's head encircled by lapis lazuli flowers." But it's not, it should be "A red gold fox on ermine", as in infobox. Can you fix it, please? --SvetlanaPtrv Обсуждение 17:59, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

The books give conflicting reports: apparently, it's a red-gold fox surrounded by lapis lazuli flowers, all of which is on an ermine background. In the book version, that is: the TV version dropped the lapis lazuli flowers.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:32, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

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