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GRRM on fewer Martells in the TV versionEdit

So Spake Martin - According to an interview with, Martin acknowledged that they may have to condense some of the Martells but he honestly doesn't know at this point.

Question: Will there be fewer Martells on the TV show? - "It's possible. They haven't gotten to that. I know they're, we're bringing Oberyn this year, there's been that huge Internet controversy about that. So that we will definitely have the Red Viper and his brother Doran at some point. And I think we will have Areo and the Sand Snakes. I don't know."[1]

So sayeth the shepherd, so sayeth the flock.

I honestly thought it wouldn't be a problem to condense some of the Sand Snakes - there are eight of them, albeit the youngest four aren't really characters at this point they're just little girls. As for the oldest four, there are Obara (out of Oldtown whore) the big tough one, Nymeria (out of Volantene noblewoman) the beautiful one with the blades, Tyene (out of a septa) blonde-haired blue-eyed master of poisons, and Sarella (out of a Summer Islands trader) the dark trickster/infiltrator. (sigh) I wish we could have all four.

But of the main ones we've got Arianne, Quentyn, and Trystane. All three do important things in the story so I'm not sure how they could possibly condense all of them.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:22, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, speak of the devil. Today they cast Ellaria Sand. So they've cast all of the adult members from the books. The question is about Doran's children and the Sand Snakes. They need at least one son to be betrothed to Myrcella (though they didn't mention Trystane by name at the time), and it would be madness to remove Arianne....when I see crazy fan speculations in the comments section on which baselessly proclaim "Maybe they'll combine Ellaria and Arianne" I can say without hyperbole that if I was physically present in the room with the person who made that comment, I would slap them across the face. Not for suggesting the possibility, mind you, but those who feel assured that this is what is going to happen, when it's a very out-there theory to begin with. I fear for Quentyn however, even though he does a lot in later books. Meanwhile, I'm fairly confident that at least some of the Sand Snakes might get condensed, but even Martin doesn't know at this point: the younger Martells don't get introduced until book 4, which will correspond to Season 5, so we might go through all of Season 4 with no new information. We must pay close attention to names they mention, i.e. if at least some of the younger Sand Snakes accompany Ellaria.

Also, good to see that they cast an Indian actress in the role, to stress that the Rhoynar are different - not everyone in Westeros is a blonde-haired blue-eyed Aryan ideal Andal like the Lannisters.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:31, July 25, 2013 (UTC)


"The Martells of old used a spear as their emblem, while Nymeria and the Rhoynar used the sun as theirs."

Wait...why would the Rhoynar use a sun? If anything, the First Men/Andals of Dorne before the Rhoynar arrived would use a sun to represent the hot deserts of Dorne, not the other way around.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:53, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


Hello. Wondering about updating the Template for the family tree. Wondering if it would be better to show that Ellaria Sand isn't the exclusive mother of all the Sand Snakes? --Ardilaun (talk) 23:34, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Not yet. We're not sure how the TV continuity might change around the Martell relationships. We're only going from early, leaked casting reports at this point. I have decided to hold off on updating the Martell family tree until we get more information as Season 5 approaches.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:05, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
With all the press releases and interviews from David Benioff, D.B. Weiss and others during San Diego ComicCon confirming that the Sand Snakes have different mothers, might be worth updating. I think the templates ought be consistent with the information shown in this Wiki's articles and currently those articles show which ones are the daughters of Ellaria Sand and which ones are not so the template ought to concur with that? Also a minor edit would be to which switch Mormont to Martell in the category section. Ardilaun (talk) 14:39, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
I sympathize with your concern, but the SDCC announcements only raised more questions. Even itself, in their video discussion of the casting, pointed out that the casting descriptions appear to be misworded, and there is now heavy debate about how the Martells are being condensed in the TV continuity. In particular...does Arianne Martell still exist? Because now Trystane is described as the "son and heir" of Doran....even though, back in Season 2, Tyrion explicitly said that Myrcella was being betrothed to Doran's "youngest" son, implying that he isn't even the heir. The Tyene casting is also bizarre: Tyene is the one Caucasian-looking Sand Snake, and they cast an Italian actress accordingly...then said she's the eldest daughter of Ellaria? That makes no sense! Tyene's entire point, the entire reason for the character's existence, is that she's a bastard from another woman and the only white one. Or, if you were going to make her Oberyn and Ellaria's child, cast a non-white actor! Why would she look nothing like either of her parents? (no, Italian people don't look Hispanic/Indian/Arabic - this isn't some 1970's Indian crying about pollution gimmick). So maybe that was misworded too, we don't know.
The point is that the SDCC casting announcement raised as many questions as it did answers, so I feel we must once again adopt a "wait and see" attitude until the TV show provides us with a clear family tree.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:25, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
I don't there is any issue switching Mormont to Martell
I think we don't know the entire ethnic heritage of every actor cast and there are some assumption being made based on surnames, but that is neither here nor there.
Whether a Sand Snake's mother is from Volantis or Yi Ti or wherever is a question that's separate from whether she is Ellaria Sand's daughter. Somebody who edits's ASOIAF must have read this Talk Page seen they're now using the one I suggested. I think it just having Various woman and Ellaria Sand both link down to Sand Snakes doesn't conflict with any of the questions book fans seem to have.Ardilaun (talk) 15:49, September 6, 2014 (UTC)
...where does it say "Mormont"?
If the TV series later officially says "Tyene is Ellaria's daughter", we go with that as a TV change, that's not what I'm talking about. "Officially" is TV dialogue or their official family tree on the HBO Viewer's Guide. The issue is that there were enough oddities in the casting descriptions put out at SDCC that many (specifically have questioned if it contained some mistakes (to the point that Elyo actually contacted HBO about it, yet their only reply was "No comment"). So with conflicting reports and considering the SDCC press release to be unreliable, we should wait for further information (I won't leave this until premiere night, I think they'll clarify this months beforehand when trailers for Season 5 start popping up).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:20, September 6, 2014 (UTC)

Where does it say "Mormont"?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:07, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Ellaria's DaughtersEdit

I've already spoke to TDD about this on my talk page and he said to bring it here. I was under the impression that Ellaria was the mother of the four youngest bastard daughters of Oberyn: Elia, Obella, Dorea, and Loreza. She was listed before as being the mother of the four youngest, but now it says she has five daughters in her infobox and that Tyene, the third oldest of the sand snakes, have been changed to be her daughter. In Tyene's bio it says she's the eldest of Ellaria's daughters but on Elia Sand's bio it says she's the oldest of the four born to Ellaria. Which version is correct? Did something recently change? - Son Of Fire (talk) 09:20, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

The official casting announcement from SDCC describes Tyene as Ellaria's daughter. However, it also contains several discrepancies, such as referring to Trystane as Doran's heir, when he's already been established as the youngest child. It remains an official source... but should be taken with a pinch of salt.--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner 30px 10:28, September 18, 2014 (UTC)
Righto - I'll leave as is until they clear up some of these issues, thanks. - Son Of Fire (talk) 11:19, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

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