Velaryon heraldry

The colors for House Velaryon are supposedly a silver seahorse on sea green but the sigil looks to be dark green seahorse on silver.

Also, is this sigil high enough quality to use for creating a coat of arms on this site?

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 21:50, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

Oh I was going to handle this after Christmas break starts:

The Season 5 Histories & Lore finally introduced the Velaryon sigil...but in heavily stylized form, in an on-screen manuscript.

The same manuscript doesn't use the canonical versions of Targaryen or Arryn heraldry:

S5 Rhaenyra Iron Throne quartered heraldry

The Velaryons are really the last "important" heraldry we need - others are for houses that aren't as important in the narrative.

Given that this artwork "establishes" that it exists in the continuity...

...and given that lately the TV show has just been directly copying designs from AWOIAF and us....

I propose that we go out on a limb and just use the current Velaryon heraldry from AWOIAF; this "heavily stylized" one from an on-screen manuscript is unusable.

But the newer one from AWOIAF, which actually looks like a seahorse animal, not the one that looks like a horse with a fishtail.

Because we kind of need the Velaryon sigil in order to make icons for the Blacks under Rhaenyra.

I made a mockup of one here:

Not great, I had to recolor it by hand from the AWOIAF version (I don't have imaging tools, if we go with this it needs to be fixed).

Which introduces a separate question:

"A silver seahorse on sea green"

It turns out that "Sea green" can refer to a range of colors, anything from a light blue teal sort of color to a deeper dark green kind of color.

Now I personally go with the greener side, because it looks "sea green". Green is in the name. The prior variant was practically light blue - dude, if you want "sea blue" just call it that.

So I took the AWOIAF Velaryon sigil and used it to cobble together a Rhaenyra one; if we use this someone more skilled needs to make a better recoloring than my mere mockup (if you download it and zoom in you can see the few pixels I probably missed).

But damn it, Velaryon was the last major sigil we needed for navigation purposes, due to the Dance of the Dragons and Rhaenyra's entire faction needing it.

So I want to use its "heavily stylized" appearance in the Histories & Lore to introduce it into "TV canon" (and it is now officially "a seahorse"), BUT we use one of the more stable versions from AWOIAF, given that the artwork in that on-screen manuscript was off anyway.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:15, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

I am on-board with your plan - sounds sensible.

Let's see what Gonzalo84 and Xanderen say and then get these finalized.

Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 22:27, December 12, 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't describe it as "unusable"... it's basic, sure, not no more so than say Hornwood, Morrigan, Mormont, Manderly... several others come to mind. If this is the best we're going to get I say use it! Something that's been uniquely made by us will always be preferably to something pulled from another site, IMO. - Xanderen signature 10:25, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

It's not because it's basic. It's because it's alongside other sigils, Targaryen and Arryn, which don't look like their "official" versions either. So if we present that as the "official" Velaryon version we'd be misrepresenting it. All three sigils in it are like a cartoonified simpler version.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:00, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

That's not really relevant, as we have no other point of reference to compare it with (unlike Targ and Arryn). This is the only legitimate image we have, so I don't see why we shouldn't use it for now until something better comes along. - Xanderen signature 16:31, December 13, 2016 (UTC)
By comparison with the Targaryen and Arryn ones in this, it probably doesn't reflect what the "in-universe" sigil looks like.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:43, December 13, 2016 (UTC)
We can use the precedent of House Reed. Back in S3 or 4 they had a "cartoon" version and then the show went with one taken from AWOIAF. They did something similar with the Stokeworth sigil.

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:20, December 13, 2016 (UTC)

But they haven't used the Velaryon sigil from AWoIaF yet... so that precedent doesn't apply here. - Xanderen signature 18:28, December 13, 2016 (UTC)
Here's a prototype I made last night. I think it's better to use something that at least has some basis in canon, and was made for and by us, rather than just take from another site. - Xanderen signature 09:20, December 14, 2016 (UTC)
I'm sold on this prototype! I think it looks like something that would be found in-universe and is close enough to the stylized version to not be something just created out of whole cloth.
Regards Ser Shield McShield (talk) 19:51, December 14, 2016 (UTC)

That's very good work; I kind of have my heart set on the AWOIAF one, but if I lose, we'll use that. What do Gonzalo84 and others think?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:38, December 14, 2016 (UTC)

Just a prototype, as I said. I can make any adjustments/improvements that are deemed necessary. - Xanderen signature 17:38, December 15, 2016 (UTC)
If it's the closest we've got, I say go for it. Who knows, maybe HBO completes the circle by adapting Xanderen's interpretation (as they've done before)? --CrappyScrapCrappyScrap-Shield 11:18, December 16, 2016 (UTC)
Here's hoping! I'm currently working on a second perfected version, so can we hold off on making a descision until I get it finished? Should be able to upload tomorrow. - Xanderen signature 18:19, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

Gonzalo84 has final decision.

Ah, think of that guy who made the Reed sigil they co-opted. That's the dream. Long after our bones are dust, his work will remain.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:59, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

Here's hoping. Anyway, here's my second "draft"... overall I prefer this one to the first, but I'm still not 100% satisfied. It's a closer resemblance to the reference anyway, and I've tweaked the colors a bit. - Xanderen signature 17:48, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

I'm not keen on the update; please never apply a highlight effect to heraldry images.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:49, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

No worries, it was just an experiment, as I said. To be clear, was it just the highlight you didn't like, or the design in general? I'm still working on perfecting it further. - Xanderen signature 17:12, December 19, 2016 (UTC)

Xanderen's artwork has grown on me and I quite like it; still just waiting on Gonzalo84's approval before we go ahead and officially use it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:58, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

I also like it, please use it.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:01, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

Then let the word go forth throughout the lands, that this is the official sigil we will use for House Velaryon in the TV series. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:24, January 3, 2017 (UTC)

Velaryons on TV show

Does anyone else wish that the Velaryon's were included in the TV show during the Wars of the Five Kings? Either on Team Stannis or Team Lannister. Dr. Legendary (talk) 13:23, October 18, 2017 (UTC)

I don't see why they would seeing as how it was the Baratheons and Lannisters who overthrew the Targaryens in the first place. Shaneymike (talk) 16:00, October 18, 2017 (UTC)