- Are you people sure the Sandor is the Lord Commander and not Jaime ?--KIWIBOλ 01:08, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
- I know Sandor joined, but i swear Jaime is still head of the guard Jordan 'The Blur' Farrell 20:43, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
- i'm going to change it Jordan 'The Blur' Farrell 20:44, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard following Ser Barristan's departure is Jaime Lannister.--Gonzalo84 20:26, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
Does she ever use the term or organize it herself? I'm pretty sure that Barristan just shows up and assumes that she has a Queensguard. Before that she just had her Bloodriders and Jorah, and she didn't refer to them as a Queensguard. Ragestorm (talk) 19:40, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
- The problem is that this happened differently in the books. I've been checking but it's difficult to sift through the first two books to find all references to this (my time is limited now). I did find that in her last chapter in the first book, Daenerys in her internal POV monologue thinks that "Jorah and my bloodriders shall be my Queensguard". That's the first time the term is mentioned (I think). The problem as I said is that the "Arstan Whitebeard" ruse was cut from the TV show (which was a good decision; you can do that in a book but not a visual medium). Originally, Barristan presented himself as just some guy called "Arstan" at the end of book 2, as she was departing Qarth for Slaver's Bay. --->So the scene from the TV series in which he meets her and requests to join her Queensguard didn't actually happen in the books. Near as I can tell, later chapters just refer to him as part of the Queensguard as if it happened "off screen". So in the books, it's never clear if it's just a term she made up. I personally think that, even though there's never been a female monarch, they'd at least theoretically have already decided that if there ever was, they'd be her Queensguard, but I cannot confirm.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:59, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
- As far as terminology goes, that makes sense (same thing happens in the real world, everyone just replaces "king" with "queen" where relevant). I'm more concerned with referring to Jorah, Barristan and the bloodriders as her Queensguard if the only on-screen use of the term comes from Barristan and not Dany.--Ragestorm (talk) 19:16, May 4, 2013 (UTC)
- There's a typo in the article but I'm too lazy to sign up to fix it: Queensgard.
Jaime's Kingsguard armor in the Season 4 trailer is subtly different; it doesn't have the (TV-series only) crown symbol on the breastplate anymore. Instead it simply has a sword. Dare we hope they're trying to bring it back in line with the books?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:10, January 13, 2014 (UTC)
- I've just seen a clearer image: the crown is "behind" the sword.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 13:29, January 13, 2014 (UTC)
Inscription into the King's GuardEdit
This is more off a question i have that the article dosent answer. How does one join the kingsguard? Is it a appointed duty? Over which you have no say in the matter (since Tywin used it as a threat to Olenna)? or does one willfully join it if he quialifies for it? Noc noc... whos their? Darknesssss (talk) 19:22, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
- Well, you don't apply to join the Kingsguard: you get asked. And you are allowed to decline the offer -- one of the complaints Westeros.org made about "The Climb" was that it invented the idea that Tywin could somehow forcibly name Loras to the Kingsguard, when this is in fact impossible. So it's good that you bring that up because it's sort of a plot hole that the adaptation needlessly introduced for a minor scene of contrived tension between Tywin and Olenna (why not just introduce the other two Tyrell brothers? Cersei was being forced to marry Loras's older brother Willas in the books, and he isn't "the heir to Highgarden" -- even George R.R. Martin has complained about this.
- Otherwise, basically you get asked to join the Kingsguard if you're hailed as one of the greatest living knights, the paragon example of martial ability AND chivalric virtue....in theory, anyway. Some turned out to be political appointments like the honorless Ser Meryn. Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne lived up to expectations, though. The TV show hasn't explained this well: five out of the Mad King's seven Kingsguard were killed in the war. The only two survivors were Jaime and Barristan (who was captured and pardoned). Rarely if ever have there been five simultaneous openings on the Kingsguard, and Robert refilled them with many men chosen as political favors to their families - Robert's Kingsguard is considered one of the worst in history....until even Barristan left, and they just turned into a gang of thugs who are Joffrey's chief enforcers.
- Also you can only join if one of the current seven members dies: Barristann was promised a place in the kingsguard after he killed Maelys Blackfyre and ended the War of the Ninepenny Kings forty years ago, but he had to wait 2 or 3 years until one of the then-current Kingsguard died and a spot opened up.
- One requirement is that you do need to be a knight (it was technically illegal to make Sandor Clegane a Kingsguard; they even offered to knight him on the spot to allow him to join, but he refused because he disdains the hypocrisy of knights. They then appointed him anyway, illegally). A practical result is that Northmen or ironborn tend to never be in the Kingsguard, because "knights" follow the Faith of the Seven.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:00, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
Tywin mentions in the Season 4 premiere that there is some precedent for allowing a Kingsguard to resign under extreme circumstances. Basically if the king asks the High Septon's permission, a Kingsguard may be allowed to resign, but this almost never happens and isn't supposed to (like, if a knight's entire family got wiped out in a civil war, a king might release a Kingsguard from his vows to allow him to have children and continue his family's name, rule their home castle).
How is this different from what happened to Ser Barristan? Well there's a difference between "The Kingsguard knight himself asking special permission to resign of his own volition", and Barristan being forced out of the Kingsguard against his will, which is illegal. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:50, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
The survival of Ser Preston in Season 4Edit
The Season 4 premiere established with a line of dialogue that Ser Preston Greenfield is still alive in the TV continuity...apparently he did not simply die "off screen" during the Riot of King's Landing in Season 4 (as he did in the books).
Ser Barristan was illegally dismissed from the Kingsguard in Season 1, and Sandor appointed to replace him.
So in the TV version, this is what happened to Joffrey's Kingsguard:
1-Jaime, 2- Meryn Trant, 3-Boros Blount have been members since the beginning. All three are in King's Landing in Season 4. Number 4, Arys Oakheart, was around since the beginning but has been sent to Dorne with Myrcella (while not named, he was seen on her boat as it departed for Dorne).
Of the remaining three spots, we've got: Preston Greenfield, Mandon Moore, and Sandor Clegane.
In the books, this gets a bit complicated: Boros was dismissed for cowardice due to the subplot about protecting Tommen in book 2, but later reinstated when Tywin arrived in the city. Osmund Kettleblack was appointed to replace Borros, but then when Borros was reinstated it was to refill the spot vacated by Sandor Clegane abandoning his position after the Battle of the Blackwater. -->Functionally, it's as if Boros never left, and Osmund Kettleblack replaced Sandor.
Preston Greenfield was killed in the Riot of King's Landing and replaced by Balon Swann, who many agreed was a good knight (compared to Borros and Meryn).
Mandon Moore was killed in the Battle of the Blackwater. In the books, he was immediately replaced by Ser Loras....for whom it was both a great honor to join and a chance to have a swordsman at Margaery's side at all times at court, to protect her from Joffrey or the Lannisters. In the TV show they're leaning to a bad explanation that Loras has no older brothers (being the third son in the books, he didn't care about giving up his right to inheritance, as he was third in line).
Osmund Kettleblack hasn't even been introduced in the TV series, that whole subplot got cut. Nor has Balon Swann been mentioned by name but we can infer its him by the number of Kingsguard in certain scenes.
So I would guess that, basically, in the TV continuity, Ser Preston never died so his spot never opened up...(and Ser Boros was never dismissed by returned)...
Two spots were clearly left open after the Battle of the Blackwater when Mandon died and Sandor left. In the books, they were replaced by Loras and Osmund, respectively (though the specific knight they replaced is academic, given that it was a simultaneous appointment).
...so...in the TV show, Preston never died, so Balon Swann must have filled one of the two open spots. Loras hasn't been named to the Kingsguard...yet...while Ser Osmund hasn't been introduced.
Well and good, if they're simply combining Ser Balon and Osmund, but....we have to be on the lookout next week during the royal wedding: what if they clearly show seven kingsguard members, without explanation? Will one of them be tacitly assumed to be Kettleblack?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:50, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
Current Roster at the end of Season 5 Edit
Two questions about the current roster of the Kingsguard - where is it established that the newest member of the Kingsguard is Ser Gregor Clegane and when did Ser Arys Oakheart return?
18.104.22.168 23:35, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
It's pretty obvious who the guy under the enormous suit of armor is. The character speculated to be Arys Oakheart hasn't done anything at all, so I'm not sure where he's returning from. Lksdjf (talk) 23:40, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
Where is Ser Osmund Kettleblack's page ? Deleted ? Why ? There is five kingsguard when Tommen goes to see the High Sparrow, so he is obviously one of them.
Okay, let's go over this again:
In the novels, Robert's Kingsguard when he died were Barristan, Jaime, Meryn Trant, Boros Blount, Mandon Moore, Preston Greenfield, and Artys Oakheart. When Joffrey became king he dismissed Barristan and replaced him with the Hound.
A bit of "musical chairs" then happened with Boros - he was dismissed for cowardice letting Tyrion take Tommen, and replaced with Cersei's man Osmund Kettleblack. However, Boros was then reinstated by Tywin to fill the Hound's position when he deserted. So we might as well say Osmund Kettleblack took the Hound's position.
Preston Greenfield died in the riot of King's Landing, and Mandon Moore died in the Battle of the Blackwater. Loras replaced Mandon, and Balon Swann replaced Preston.
Arys Oakheart later died in Dorne, and "Robert Strong" was his replacement.
In the TV series:
- Meryn, Boros, and Preston have been mentioned by name (as well as Barristan, Jaime, and Mandon). Arys was never mentioned by name but a Kingsguard was seen on Myrcella's boat, which we can assume was Arys.
- Preston didn't die in the riot of King's Landing and is referred to in dialogue as alive in Seaosn 4. Thus Balon Swann didn't directly replace him.
- Thus after book 2 there were three vacancies: Preston, the Hound, and Mandon, filled by Osmund, Balon, and Loras.
- Preston didn't die and Loras didn't get appointed to the Kingsguard, one for one, okay.
- Arys is apparently still alive in the TV series as well, and in King's Landing.
- We can't necessarily assume that Osmund and Balon exist in the TV show because they were never mentioned by name - though we have seen seven Kingsguard in a given episode ("Sons of the Harpy").
- If Arys Oakheart didn't die, what spot could Gregor take on the seven man group? Alternatively, are events in Braavos being shown out of synch with the rest of the season and occurred earlier, in which case a letter came from Braavos indicating that Meryn is dead?
So first, did Gregor directly replace Arys, or has there been a vacancy this entire time? That is, we SAW seven actors, but this is retconning that there shouldn't have been?
Alternatively...we assume Osmund and Balon existed since early Season 3, without a two year vacancy.
....given that such a long vacancy for the paranoid Cersei is unlikely, I guess we should tacitly assume that Balon and Osmund exist, and screw it, say that Gregor is directly replacing Meryn.
If Tommen had a single fewer Kingsguard protecting him in "Sons of the Harpy", this issue would be clearer. But as it is... there is a continuity issue, I must say. I had assumed they would kill Meryn in episode 9, and that the news would travel by episode 10 so that Gregor could be made a Kinsguard. But apparently they are ignoring the issue entirely.
Is it canon for the TV show that there MUST be 7 kinsguard? I know it isn't in the TV show itself, but it must be mentioned in the Blu Ray extras, right? Anyway. We can say that either they had already received Meryn's news (doubtful), or that Qyburn is just ignoring the issue (messy, but at least it means we don't have to ignore continuity and chronology.) —ArticXiongmao (talk) 21:28, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
Even if he had one fewer in "Sons of the Harpy" it would be odd - they wouldn't leave the position vacant for that long. Crud. Plus we have a new speaking Kingsguard but he was credited as only "lead Kingsguard". Presumably with Meryn's death, we'll have a new point-man to be the one Kingsguard who actually talks to characters.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:51, June 17, 2015 (UTC)