How is Myrcella now heir to the throne? Another article on here says that one of the Targaryen kings made a law which forbade females from taking the throne. So with Tommen now king, surely a male would be next in line for the throne after him (not quite sure who that would be).Dandaman62 (talk) 21:42, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
- Renly is dead and Stannis is in rebellion against Tommen so they are excluding him from the line of succession. Myrcella is Tommen's only relative left so she is the heir. Daemon Targaryen (talk) 17:56 April 16, 2014 (ECT)
Under normal succession law, a lord's daughter will succeed ahead of his younger brother. For Tywin Lannister, Cersei is ahead of his younger brother Kevan in line of succession. But under normal succession law, among a lord's children, sons inherit ahead of daughters. For the Starks, Rickon is actually ahead of Sansa in line of succession, and as Tyrion pointed out, he would normally be ahead of Cersei in line of succession, despite the fact that he is younger than her (and their mother died giving birth to him).
Dorne, uniquely among the Seven Kingdoms, practices equal primogeniture. A daughter will still succeed a ahead of a younger uncle. Indeed, while Doran is the current ruler of Dorne, the previous ruler was the mother of Doran and Oberyn. Doran's eldest child is his daughter Arianne, so Arianne is the heir to Dorne, ahead of Oberyn (and also Doran has some younger sons).
The special royal succession laws enacted by Aegon III after the Dance of the Dragons put female heirs behind all possible male ones, explicitly meaning that if a king dies and his only surviving child is a daughter, she will be skipped and the throne will go to the king's younger brother.
Renly even spelled it out in on-screen dialogue in Season 1: he's "fourth in line" to Robert, behind Joffrey, Tommen, and Stannis...skipping over Myrcella and Stannis's daughter Shireen entirely.
- According to standard succession law in Westeros, Myrcella would be Tommen's heir as his last surviving sibling.
- Under Dornish inheritance law, Myrcella would outrank Tommen because she is older than him, and be Queen...the problem is that King's Landing isn't in Dorne.
- Under normal royal inheritance law, strictly speaking, the surviving order is: "Tommen, Stannis" followed by all female heirs, "Myrcella, Shireen."
But you see this is all a farce. None of Cersei's children are really in the line of succession because they're not really Robert's children.
Moreover, the Targaryens were always "ahead of them in line of succession".
Robert's paper-thin legal excuse for claiming the throne is because his grandmother was a Targaryen, so the Baratheons do have some Targaryen blood. But they're distant cousins: Viserys always outranked Robert.
But also as Renly says in Season 1, "no one cares about the bloody line of succession": Robert became king because he usurped it from the Mad King and Rhaegar, by the strength of his armies, not legality.
So while Viserys was ahead of Robert during his entire reign, Robert's government just declared that the Targaryen exiles were traitors to the realm and condemned to death if they caught them.
Then Viserys and Robert died in rapid succession.
The problem is that, strictly speaking, if the royal inheritance laws were followed to the letter, Daenerys actually ranks behind Robert and Stannis. But again, she considers the Baratheons to be traitors, and thus expelled from the line of succession.
Cersei and the Lannisters, meanwhile, declared that Stannis and Renly were traitors and bereft of their place in the line of succession, even though Stannis is the immediate heir to Tommen under those laws. Again, the Lannisters simply declare that Stannis is a traitor, making his claim null and void...no one actually cares about the legality of any of this, of course. It's that whole discussion Varys had about "power is where men believe it resides"
I mean, Eddard Stark's last-ditch attempt to stop the Lannisters was to reword Robert's will to say "my lawful heir" instead of "Joffrey" -- Cersei simply tore it in half, and asked Eddard if he honestly thought a hastily written legal loophole would stop the palace coup she had already set in motion.
But it is seen as sort of...questionable. A bit more shaky, you see. Even if no one believes that Jaime is the real father of all of Cersei's children, everyone knows that under normal circumstances, should Tommen die, Stannis would be the "lawful" heir, and if the Lannisters had only Myrcella, they'd be seen as pushing it pretty far to then say Stannis is just a traitor...
But this is all just artifice. If Tommen dies it would depend on who has the bigger armies, Myrcella or Stannis. The Lannisters who control Tommen consider Myrcella to be his heir.
From a strict technical standpoint, disregarding when one faction simply declares the others don't count, of the surviving characters....considering that Cersei's children are not Robert's, and Gendry is his son but an unlawful bastard, Stannis is by right the heir to Robert, under any succession law.
Under royal succession law, Stannis is actually the last male heir of the Baratheons or Targaryens, so it would be: "Stannis, Daenerys, Shireen."--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:20, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
- You forgot to add Myrcella here.."Stannis, Daenerys, Myrcella, Shireen." SuperRobertWa (talk) 20:21, July 6, 2014 (UTC)
- I didn't "forget" - Myrcella isn't really a Baratheon. They just claim she is. Okay, the succession order while Robert was alive, before we knew about the secret that Jaime is really the father of all of Cersei's children...
- Objectively, would be "Viserys, Robert, Joffrey, Tommen, Stannis, Renly, Daenerys, Myrcella, Shireen"....but the Targaryens rightly think the Baratheons aren't viable claimants anymore due to being usurpers, so they just put it as "Viserys, Daenerys". Similarly, "where was Robert in the bloody line of succession?" - Viserys was ahead of Robert, he usurped him and his family. Given that Robert declared Viserys and Daenerys's claims null and void (not that he had the authority to do so)...reckoning heirs not from the main Targaryen line, but from Robert personally, gives: "Robert, Joffrey, Tommen, Stannis, Renly, Myrcella, Shireen".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:39, July 6, 2014 (UTC)
needs update Edit
In the lead, "Her older brother Joffrey Baratheon currently sits on the Iron Throne" needs to be changed to "Her younger brother Tommen Baratheon currently sits on the Iron Throne" LukeSurl (talk) 17:03, May 13, 2014 (UTC)