Wait, how are we going to date this? Cersei in the TV series said she was a small child when the rebellion occurred, but the books make clear that Tywin was made Hand of the King as a result of the rebellion, because Aerys Targaryen was impressed by his ruthlessness; Tywin then served as Hand of the King for twenty years, then resigned a few years before Robert's Rebellion. Give or take, this means that the rebellion had to have occurred about forty years before the War of the Five Kings. 17 years between RR and WOTFK plus 3-4 years after Tywin resigned but before RR is twenty, plus another twenty, gets us to forty. Maybe Cersei is supposed to be older in the TV series, but in the books she was born in 266 AL.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:56, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
Against Tytos or Tywin
As confirmed by Elio & Linda of Westeros.org, the Reyne Rebellion was actually against Tywin's father Tytos. Tywin was Robb's age at the time, he was this surprisingly young yet great war leader. There was a chance Tytos died when he was young or something, but they confirmed that in the books, Tytos was actually still alive at the time of this rebellion.
In "Second Sons", Cersei says that the Reynes rebelled against her father...making no mention of her grandfather.
How do we address this contradiction? Some say this means the TV continuity is irreparably different. I suggest that we treat it that Cersei was merely "speaking loosely"....I mean in a vague sense they were "rebelling against her father" in that he had to fight them and was de facto in control of the Lannisters. To be honest that summary about the Reynes of Castamere from Second Sons really introduced all sorts of dating problems (see above, that Cersei would have to be a decade older and in her mid-fifties to remember a war that happened forty years ago).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:44, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree the dialogue was likely simplified for the sake of "show only" fans, and that single line was too vague to warrant assuming the show contradicts the books in this matter. Let's leave as is for the time being, and hope the blu-ray sheds some light on the matter. It may also have been a mistake.-- 16:16, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
- Westeros.org's review was very informative: they're working with GRRM on the World of Ice and Fire book which gives previously unavailable detail on the Reynes. They make a big point that while the Reynes may have been the "second wealthiest family" in the Westerlands, there was no way they could be the second wealthiest in all of Westeros (the Tyrells have probably always been the second or near-second wealthiest, due to controlling the Reach). Bigger point is that there's no way they could build a castle to rival Casterly Rock - it's sort of like the Lonely Mountain from The Hobbit. There's a castle built on top but they've been tunneling into the mountain for hundreds of years - in terms of internal space it possibly rivals the Red Keep. Albeit, it isn't a freestanding structure but a series of tunnels (with windows opening to sheer cliff faces on the way down). So Westeros.org pointed out a few problems with that speech. I personally try to chalk its mistakes up to "Cersei was trying to intimidate Margaery, and was thus exaggerating to make a point." Well, we'll know more with the Blu-ray.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:30, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
- Perhaps the showrunners made the Reyne Rebellion against Tywin. Even if he was Hand of the King during the moment of the TV version of the uprising he could've returned to the Westerlands to put down the rebellion. Rebelling while Tywin was away sounds like a good strategy, like Theon taking Winterfell when Robb is well away.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:45, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
This is going to stay titled "the Reyne Rebellion" because:
- It actually never had a formal name, in the books or Histories & Lore. "Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion" is just a placeholder name the book wiki made up.
- The Tarbecks aren't just allies, but part of the extended "Reyne" family through intermarriage and Ellyn Reyne-Tarbeck's children.
- "Reyne Rebellion" is shorter than "Reyne-Tarbeck Rebellion", when putting it into portals and such.
- "Reyne Rebellion" is nicely alliterative.
- After all, it's "the Reynes of Castamere" that everyone remembers in shorthand...