Possessive form of names ending in "S"Edit
Okay I've been making this mistake for far too long so I decided to try to fact-check this:
We've been writing "Stannis'" (Stannis, an apostrophe, and NO following possessive "S") for things that belong to Stannis: "Stannis' army", "Stannis' daughter".
I think we were overcompensating. I checked this style guide http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/possessives.htm -- though admittedly there is more than one official style guide floating around out there.
At any rate, it appears that we've been overcompensating due to mental association with rules about possessive S and PLURAL nouns:
"The Lannisters' money" is correct, but "the Lannisters's money" is incorrect.
That only applies to plural nouns, not singular nouns like a man named "Stannis" that happen to end in "S". In which case, "Stannis's" would actually be correct.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:06, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
I checked: the A Song of Ice and Fire books themselves use "Stannis's" with a following possessive "S". This will now be the official version on the wiki, because it is the version used by George R.R. Martin. So sayeth the shepherd, so sayeth the flock. (Frankly I prefer it this way - the dangling lone apostrophe makes wiki-coding problems, ends up italicizing stuff that shouldn't be).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:11, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I've read all the books, except book 4 and 5. In the books Stannis is an atheist. But even in the show he says to Davos that he doesn't care about gods. So should we change his religion to atheism or something.
- Well no, because it isn't just "belief" but also which religion they "support", as a cultural/political thing. With the Lannisters, for example, Tywin is explicitly not very religious ("He believes in the gods, he just doesn't like them very much") but he makes sure to politically influence the Faith of the Seven; Jaime was raised in the Faith of the Seven and takes part in its ceremonies, but privately reveals he doesn't really believe in any gods (because if any religion was real, its gods wouldn't have let the Mad King's reign of terror happen). So while Stannis is something of an atheist (albeit, it is ambiguous) he has chosen to support the Lord of Light religion as a political decision (the Lannisters have their claws deeply around the Faith of the Seven, basically choosing the election of new High Septons through bribery, to the point that it was easier to just switch to a different religion). --The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:11, May 11, 2014 (UTC)
Wtg Stannis Edit
Switching my allegiance to His Grace Tommen of the House Baratheon, First of His Name, the Best Chance we have for a good King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm.
Kinslayer Stannis indeed.
He's dead, folksEdit
The Inside the Episode is pretty straightforward. He's dead. DRAEVAN13 02:32, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
Unless we get some confirmation from Stephen Dillane that Stannis is dead(like what Ian McElhinney did with his role as Barristan) or if we see his body, then i will not believe that he is dead. LeonardohJ4 (talk) 03:17, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
All they said was he was ready to die, nothing about him dying. If anything, that wording and the cut away are in favor of him being alive. But frankly it is uncertain, which is what it should say until it's been confirmed one way or another.126.96.36.199 03:21, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
- He's dead.
- Yup, official website confirmed, Stannis is dead. DRAEVAN13 03:26, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
Well, the website also says Jon Snow is Ned Stark's Bastard son so it must only be from the information we're given in the show.
Well, I guess he is dead.... for now. But the way they shot the scene makes it so weird, why not show it? The show never shyed away from violent character death's before,they outright had Jon snow shanked to death, and we know he isn't coming back, but we get a cut away but no real resolution. I think htey intentionally left it ambiogious to give them some breathing room, that last book had a similar affect, Stannis was proclaimed to be dead by Ramsey, but it wasn't ever truly confirmed, I think they wanted the same affect as in the book. They intentionally left it ambious, like the books, which I think was a really clever way of translating the same thing into a video format.
Well, offical is offical, even if the site ends up being wrong or misleading, it still holds more sway than my pathetic opinions ever could.188.8.131.52 04:04, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
RIP Stannis Baratheon, the One True King. 184.108.40.206 04:07, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
The Director David Nutter says he's dead http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-jon-stannis-deaths-david-nutter-1201520137/
"There’s also speculation about whether Stannis is truly dead. We didn’t see Brienne deliver that final, fatal blow.
I think that was basically in the script. Dan and David felt it best not to be gratuitous with that. You really got a sense that Stannis had nothing else to live for. Brienne’s life-long mission had come to an end. It’s a situation in which Stannis was ready to die and prepared to die. It would have been gratuitous."--Mesmermann (talk) 09:57, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
I find the wording of that really weird. "I think that was basically in the script." He think's, does that mean they didn't tell him why it was written that way? And the show has never been afrid to go gratuitous before, with much more popular characters, Oberon, a fan favorite had his head crushed like a grape for the whole world to see, are you telling me that's not gratuitous.BrocktonBlocbuster (talk) 15:19, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
Latest episode - Current statusEdit
The infobox for Stannis is below standard; is simply says 'Status Dead' with no death reason. It should be changed to "Deceased" (like for all other characters) and put "Executed by Brienne of Tarth" in the 'death' voice as the reason. Considering the page is blocked, could someone with authority please do this.
Please change Stannis' status in the infobox to unconfirmed. There is still hope. The director didn't even film him getting executed, just the sword swing into nothing. 220.127.116.11 19:54, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
- He's listed on the official Game of Thrones website as "Executed by Brienne of Tarth". Unless we see him next season, we'll leave it as "Deceased". DRAEVAN13 19:56, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
What bullshit is this? Until you see a body, you don't know if Stannis is actually dead. Pretty pathetic that you've protected his page to lock the "executed by Brienne" status there. Really unprofessional. Hatred101 (talk) 15:36, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
- Any evidence that he's not dead? Or do you really think this wiki should be based on wishful thinking?--Gboy4 (talk) 15:50, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
- Other than the fact that they did a cut-out in one of the most graphic shows on television? What makes you think that if they really killed off a character as important as Stannis, they would not show him clearly dying? We clearly see Jon Snow's dead body in the end of the episode but we never see Stannis' body. Therefore, it's not wishful thinking. It's lack of evidence on your part, not mine. Hatred101 (talk) 15:53, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
- Myrcella, Jon and Stannis' pages were locked due to edit wars, for one, for two, the producers have said they're dead, for three the actors have said they're not reprising their roles next season, and for four the official Game of Thrones website says they're dead. That's not a lack of evidence, quite the contrary.
- If they do come back next season, great, we'll change it. But for now, ample evidence suggests they're dead, thus they will be listed as "Deceased". As of now, those are the facts, saying they're alive is a fan theory. DRAEVAN13 16:00, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
Edit wars would not be happening if you weren't trying to force your own viewpoint on a character's fate when it's not clear. Need I really point out that locking pages should only be reserved for cases of vandalism and not used to lock a page to an admin's preferred version? I hope you've read the admin manual, that's a big no-no. Awaiting citation on all 3 of the other afforementioned points you made. I'm not just going to take your word for it, nor should anyone. Still haven't managed to convince me or even attempted to refute any of my points on why Stannis' status should be changed. BTW, it doesn't have to be changed to "alive", just "uncertain". Hatred101 (talk) 16:05, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
- Sources? Certainly.
- Director (not producer, my mistake) confirming Stannis, Jon, and Myrcella are dead. http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-jon-stannis-deaths-david-nutter-1201520137/
- Official website saying they're dead:
- Kit Harrington saying he's not coming back next season: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview
- Wasn't able to find an interview with Stephen Dillane or Nell Tiger Free, though >_< DRAEVAN13 16:14, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
So, basically, you were full of shit. As expected, you don't have sufficient evidence to make a convincing case as to why Stannis' status should not be changed to "uncertain". Of course the director and viewer's guide would say he's dead. That's what they want people to think. Did you even read my arguments above on why Stannis' fate is uncertain? I suppose you didn't, so please do. Also, why did you throw that Kit Harrington article in there? I'm not debating Jon Snow's fate here, as that was indeed clear with that final shot of him lying in the ground, dead. Hatred101 (talk) 16:18, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
- Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not evidence.
- And as I thought, unlike me you have no sources or evidence for your claim, only insults, likely because you have no evidence. Thus, continuing speaking with you is pointless. Toodle-ooh. DRAEVAN13 16:21, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
Lmfao. What kind of imbecile are you? Did you even read what I typed in? Maybe if you stopped ignoring my arguments you would gain some intelligence, silly kid. Your sources are not convincing anyone. Unless you're able to come up with something that actually holds water, I would advise an admin to change Stannis' status to "uncertain" immediately. Also, the page should not be locked, as there was no vandalism. Edit wars are not vandalism, however unwelcome they may be. Locking a page because you feel like it is not proper admin etiquette and is grounds to ask for demotion for abuse of the admin tool. Hatred101 (talk) 16:26, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
The HBO Viwer's guide is not as good a source as it should be, which is really sad. I take anything I've read their with more than a little grain of salt.Becasue of what it is and how it written, it need's to make the assumeptions that the writer's want the audience to make, becasue if it didn't it would screw up anything they mean to be a surprise.
So, you basically just admit that the guide is unreliable and it's wrong to use the info from there on the wiki and then went on to say "well, it's all we got, so derp". Amazing stupidity. Hatred101 (talk) 17:18, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
No that's not what I said at all. I said it's not as good a source as it should be, which is entirlly different. If the viwer's guide was overwhelmingly wrong all the time and constanly listing inccorect information, then you would never use it as a source. But much more often than not the information is correct. What's more it's the offical guide preovided by HBO, and in lack of other better sources, it automatically is the best source. If the actor or the show runner's come along and say somthing different, then we can change it. But it's the best source on the subject, so it's what we havet o go by.
It's an offical source, meaning it overrides and fan based opinion. I want Stannis to be alive, and I perso0anlly don't think he is dead.But that doesn't hold any more weight than any other fan theroy. Offical site makes it the best source on the subject curretnly available as no one else who can override what it says has commented.
Cause of DeathEdit
In my opinion, is not correct the phrase "Executed by Brienne of Tarth". Is most correct "Killed by Brienne of Tarth" because she is killing him by regicide in the name of the rightful King Renly and Stannis didn't commit regicide. He was the king and Renly was a betrayer who tried to usurpate the throne (no, they weren't the same, Stannis's claim was 100% better than Renly's claim). Yes, he was more sympathetic than his brother, but he is a betrayer and he deserved his destiny. In summary, Brienne killed Stannis in the name of a false king, for a crimen who really is not a crime and without legal support behind her apart from her feelings of revenge. Was an assassination, not an execution.Mortimercio (talk) 11:50, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
This. And to prevent people from mistaking his status for uncertain we need a source that proves his death. Would be hilarious though if next season he appears and isn't dead. --Gladiatus (talk) 14:53, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
What...? Mortimercio, you should look up the definiton of an execution. This was an execution. The word doesn't imply whether the killing is legal or not. Criminal organizations and terrorists execute people. I don't even know where this is coming from. If anything, "execution" sounds harsher than "killing." —ArticXiongmao (talk) 15:10, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
1. The act or process to executing - 2. (law) the carrying out of a sentence of death (...)
Killing someone without legal process, in the name of a false king (no legal support), being judge and executioner at the same time because she wants be and using as an excuse a crime which is not really a crime (Stannis was the rightful king, not Renly, and he was right killing an enemy, traitor and usurper), Brienne commited an assassination. Killed by Brienne of Tarth is better than Executed by Brienne of Tarth because is more clear and precise. Moreover, why Renly was killed and Stannis was executed? One of them commited a serious crime what caused his death and was not Stannis. Brienne did revenge, not justice.Mortimercio (talk) 16:03, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
- 1. People are executed without using legal courts. 2. Brienne doesn't really answer to anyone, the only person she recognized as king is dead and I don't think she wants to help the Boltons or Lannisters so it may as well be her who makes the decision. 3. Renly did have a legal claim to the throne, it was just weaker than his brother's. 4. Stannis committed fratricide and filicide, the second done with absolutely no legal justification and probably caused his death, neither of these which we done in a legal process or the whole weird execution ritual, Brienne at least did the second part. 5. I would question your objectivity as you clearly like Stannis. 6. It's more Justice than anything the Boltons would do to him, I know that doesn't mean much but I'm just saying.--Gboy4 (talk) 16:27, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
Gladiatus, the GoT website states that Stannis was killed by Brienne of Tarth, so that can be our source. Regarding if he reappears next season as living: of course, they could be bluffing his death, it's not like they would say he lived, but for now we should just assume he is dead, to be safe. Reddyredcp (talk) 16:12, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
- Keep it listed as deceased until next season, ample evidence for it, if he pops up alive next season we'll change it then. I suggest we keep it locked for a bit to prevent another Myrcella incident (wasn't that a lark), but that's ultimately up to the Admins. DRAEVAN13 16:30, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
Well if we go to the extreme Brienne would technically of murdered Stannis. Even the Tyrell's openly say Renely had no busniess "pretending" to be King. Renely was a usurper by the inehritence laws of Westeros, he was planning on attacking Stannis, and presumably planned to kill him as well, the only real difference is Stannis managed to assassinate him first. Renely was a traitor and a usurper by legal definition, asserting his own claim before his older brother's and presuably what he thought were his nephews. He was fourth in line and still proclaimed himself king, had he won, then he could of washed all that away, but given he died while still in open rebelion, he died as a tratior and pretender.
Brienne know's Renely was not the rightful king, but followed him anyway, and when he was killed she took it upon herself to kill Stannis. As this is entirly based on her personal feelings towords Renly and her attituide towords Stannis. As she is acting outside of the legal system, both precived and actual, and she knew Renly was not the rightful king, she essentilly did murder Stannis, as her only justification where her own personal feelings and vendetta against Stannis. This as opposed to just killing him, which would be if she had no personal grudge against Stannis and was simply following the law. But as this motivation was pretty much based entirly on her own personal feelings and views, it may be more accurate to call it "murder" rather than "killing" or and "execution."
- Fine by me either way, as long as his status stays "Deceased". DRAEVAN13 17:00, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
You said the same that I was going to say. Doesn't exist a weaker legal claim to the throne for Renly. After Robert, Stannis is the rightful King of Westeros and Renly a traitor and a project of usurper who died trying to kill his older brother and lord. Brienne doesn't really answer to anyone and she ignored the filicide, she wanted to kill Stannis by regicide (nope) and fratricide (deleted because Renly was a rebel). Mortimercio (talk) 17:32, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
Correct use for a HangingEdit
The article states that his wife "hung" herself. This is not the correct used of the word. It should be 'hanged'