The Dorne section of this episode was so bad that it made me want to quit both my Administratorship and Wikia in its entirety, never to return.
- I'm back. I will not go quietly into the night.
From what I have heard of their writing process, I am starting to seriously question their decision to break them up by storyarc and split them between each writer, i.e. Bryan Cogman handles all the Stannis and Arya stuff. Well they handle outlines, then give script dialogue to each individual writer. But what we're upset about isn't dialogue so much as broad stroke decisions. Which are...weird. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:45, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
- The damage was done last season. The best thing that can be done with Dorne now is to spend as little time on it as possible, and focus on the other stories - have Ellaria trip and fall off the dock at the start of the next episode, and have the Sand Snakes drown trying to save her. - 04:58, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
I thought it was redeemable. But with this....in an odd way, I'm not even upset anymore. It's like being annoyed at how they "handled" Willas and Garlan Tyrell; they put such little effort into introducing the rest of House Martell that it's not exactly like it "ruined" the book vision by association. It's so bad that the book version can essentially wash its hands of it - far moreso than other storylines, I mean.
I've....there's never been a subplot I disliked this much. Qarth was shakey, and the Talisa stuff in Season 2....was corny and poorly planned, but from moment to moment wasn't too bad (given that Robb and Catelyn are main characters it's hard to bee too terrible).
Dear god this was such a weird experience...if you literally edited out the Dorne segment, which was really unrelated to anything else in this specific episode, it was pretty good. But that....that was just kind of lopsided. I'm not talking about.....when I disagree with major adaptation decisions. I think all of the Dorne stuff was made up spur of the moment - DVD comments also strongly line up with this suspicion.
I've started watching GoT and then read the books and in S5 it was okay what they have done with Dorne, because it's just too complicated to describe what's happeing in the books so it needs more screentime and I hoped for S6 that finally we see the princess or the prince but then this happened. It's nothing new. We already saw the Red Wedding or the Mutiny at Castle Black and and everybody get stabbed. I don't know how to feel about this now. It's just a waste of good book material. Cyanide3 06:59, April 26, 2016 (UTC)
Speaking as someone who came in to the show very recently (I binge-watched Season 1 over last Thanksgiving break, and then got caught up to the rest between then and February or so) and has not actually read the books (heresy, I know :P )...I still hate the Dorne subplot, even with no knowledge whatsoever of how the book handled it. Compared to the rest of the show, it almost feels like an afterthought, like it was shoehorned in there because for some reason they felt that they had to do something with Dorne and this was the best they could come up with. Probably what happened to Myrcella is the biggest reason it pisses me off, primarily because even when I saw that scene last season, it felt like they did it for no real reason at all - it felt unnecessary and it irritated me. (The only one of that brood I genuinely liked, and they had to go and do this...hate it). But yeah, other than that, the episode was pretty good, I thought. The only real reason I don't actively hope they drop Dorne and everything to do with it from this point on is that I want to see Ellaria Sand and the Sand Snakes get their just desserts. Preferrably at Jamie's hands.
It felt shoehorned in because we have proof it was. They outright stated in the DVD commentary for Season 5 that up until after they filmed Season 4, they had no intention ever including the Dorne subplot due to time limitations. At the last minute, Cogman came up with the idea "what if we send Jaime there as a viewpoint character the audience is familiar with?" -- which was a good idea, I think, in principle -- but it meant they had to quickly rush it through at the last minute.
Now...change, to any adaptation, takes extra time to work through. I think that's obvious: significantly changing a major subplot is always going to take extra work. I mean, merging Sansa Stark with Jeyne Poole - like it or hate it, we at least have a lot of proof that they focused a lot of energy onto trying to fit it in -- that is, unlike the Sand Snakes fight scene, they devoted a lot of attention to how the filmed the wedding and wedding night. Basic idea wasn't too solid I think, but they at least knew it would take time.
For Dorne, not only were they rushing into Season 5 with no previous plan of how it would work within time constraints, they then added in the extra problem of "we like the Ellaria actress, let's change the story to give her more to do". At the time, I thought "give her Arianne's role" was at least a plausible time-saving decision. To have her actually kill Myrcella at the end? Leading to confrontation with Doran?
So they were running late to begin with, then started making drastic changes, not realizing they'd need more time to make those drastic changes made apparently at whim.
This is not how TV works. This was shockingly unprofessional.
Not the artistic choice mind you - if they said "for five years we were planning for Ellaria to kill Doran", that's one thing.
You raise a point...this calls into question if Myrcella will even die in the next novel. Or at least, that it's the Martells who even kill her. Which is great, because I'm a huge Myrcella fan (she's the smart Tyrion of her generation, looks like a young Cersei but is nothing like her, and is a living monument to Cersei's sins and hypocrisy that she played favorites with Joffrey just as Tywin favorited Jaime over Cersei).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:24, April 26, 2016 (UTC)
- The book material is what I favoured throughout the series but the second season changed my mind about disliking the show. Its sad to see the show take such a massive tangent from what the books stand for - death with a reason, purpose and resolution. The major deaths also happen to be prophesied in the books more often than not, which is strange because there is no foretelling to this one. 19:15, April 26, 2016 (UTC)
How should we handle the two large notes sub-sections on the Mutiny at Castle Black, and for Dorne?
I'm trying not to fly off the handle because I want something relevant/informative enough that it will "stick" and actually get read (on the logic that a sentence that stays is better than a whole page that does not).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:45, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
They created the Meerenese navy (presumably) because they didn't think they would have time to introduce Euron. Now they are bringing in the Crow's Eye, so they burn the Meerenese Navy! It's basically a giant metaphor for their decision making process. - 05:03, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
- I noticed that. Oh, don't think I didn't notice that -- all that speculation about exactly 93 ships in the Meereenese navy captured off-screen in Season 4. I didn't put it in the notes because I thought it would be kind of spoilery to say "because Yara will be heading to Meereen" (I assume). I did a slight cheer.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:11, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
I apologize for the inconvenience: I just unlocked the pages for Jon Snow, Doran Martell, and Trystane Martell.
Some idiot at HBO Canada actually aired the premiere episode a day in advance, you see, and spoiler images were being loaded up onto the wiki, people going so far as to update Trystane's photo with screenshots, etc. so we had to slam the breaks down and lock everything until it "officially" aired at the correct time.
You have omitted Samwell and Gilly subplot from "Characters and subplots that have not yet caught up with the books:" section
188.8.131.52 18:05, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
According to IMBD, the character's name is Bernadette.