Talk:Wylla

Wylla not necessarily Jon Snow's mother

Ned does not say that Wylla is the mother of Jon Snow. We are led to assume that because;

• Ned claims Jon Snow as his bastard son, bringing him back from Robert Rebellion wars,
• Robert talks about all the women they had during campaigning, implying that Ned had only (?) one woman he slept with (as opposed to Roberts numerous), and Ned provides the name of the women: Wylla.

You're right. I edited the text slightly. - Regards, KarinS 20:08, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Robert specifically asked him what the name of the mother of his bastard was, and Eddard says (rather reluctantly) "Wylla." That seems pretty clear-cut to me that this is, at least, the story Eddard is propagating.--Werthead 12:15, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

The way I remember it is this: Robert asks Ned about the mother of Jon, suggests that it was this one women and then wonders about her name. It's the second question ('What's her name again?') that Ned answers, not the first ('Who is Jon's mother?'). I'll check the episode and transcribe that fragment later today. - Regards, KarinS 08:43, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Here's a transcript of their conversation in The Kingsroad, starting at circa 20 minutes into the episode:

Robert en Eddard sit down to eat something.
Robert: 'Gods! This is country! I have half a mind to leave them all behind and keep going.
Ned: I have half a mind to go with you. Robert: What do you say, just you and me on the Kingsroad... Swords at our side, a couple of tavern wenches to warm our beds tonight...
Ned: You should've asked me twenty years ago.
Robert (laughs): Huh! There were wars to fight, women to marry... Never had a chance to be young.
Ned (smiles): I recall a few chances.
Robert (guffaws): Ha ha ha... There was that one, ah, what was her name, that common girl of yours... Becca, with the great big tits you could bury your face in...
Ned: Bessy. She was one of yours!
Robbert: Bessy! Thank the gods for Bessy! And her tits! ... Yours was, eh, Elena, no. You told me once... Eh, Meryl? Your bastard's mother...?
Ned (suddenly aloof): Wylla.
Robert: That's it! She must have been a rare wench to make Lord Stark forget his honor. You never told me what she looked like.
Ned: Nor will I.
Robert: We were at war. None of us knew if we were going to get back home again. You're too hard on yourself. You always have been. (silence) I swear that if I weren't your king, you would've had hit me already.
Ned: The worst thing about your coronation is that I'll never get to hit you again!
Robert: Trust me. That's not the worst thing.

It's a classic. Robert asks a question and in the same sentence, he states what he thinks to be a fact. Ned answers the question, which leads Robert - and us - to assume that the second part was indeed a fact. But in this little conversation, Robert proves to be an unreliable narrator: he doesn't even remember the girl's name, not even the name of the girl he himself had slept with. And it's not likely that Ned impregnated a woman during the war and then patiently waited for their baby to be born, just as it would be unlikely that he'd gotten word from her months later that she was pregnant and then showed up afterwards to fetch the lad. - Regards, KarinS 22:37, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Regarding Jon Snow's parentage

It should be noted that, regardless of fan speculation, there has been no in-text speculation in the novels that Eddard is not Jon's father. Furthermore, the TV show has downplayed this mystery to the point where it seems extremely clear-cut: Eddard is Jon's father and his mother is, according to Eddard himself, a common girl named Wylla. Either the Jon's parentage mystery is not going to visited at all in the TV series, or the producers are holding back on even raising it as an issue until later. In either case, it's not really appropriate to keep putting 'hints' in the article here (either in the main body or the 'in the books' section) that Eddard might not be Jon's father. As far as the TV canon goes, that's not even seriously in question (yet) due to the absence of the scenes that reinforce it in the books (most notably the tower of joy sequence, which appears to not even exist in the TV canon).--Werthead (talk) 21:13, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

It's still a bit of mystery, if underplayed, about who is Jon Snow's mother hence him talking both to Ned and then Sam about how he doesn't know anything about her (obviously TV Jon Snow would like to know about her). Seems like a set-up and it would be weird if there was never any playoff to that mystery. Plus that "You may not have my name, but you have my blood" and the way Ned never actually calls Jon Snow his son are the same as the novels. Agree that maternity mystery is underplayed, but it's not totally absent. Might just be a case of the one rumor, Wylla, instead of multiple rumors. Also the speculation is in the "in the books" sections so it's fair game there. CestWhat (talk) 22:31, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

TV-first fans might not realize that the books never truly confirm that Ned is his father: that is, that the books contain no flashback scenes showing that he's actually Ned's. The first anyone saw of him is when he came to Riverrun.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:20, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. But that's not really relevant because, as has been said many times before, the TV and books are totally separate continuities and canons. It is actually possible - if surprising from a book reader's perspective - that there will be no reference at all to the Jon's parentage mystery in the show and the explanation remains what we have now. In that case, hinting otherwise even in the books section remains a violation of the spoiler policy.--Werthead (talk) 17:11, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

It's certainly a mystery to TV Jon Snow and he was brought it up at least two or three times. It's underplayed, but I don't concur that it's totally absent from the TV series and therefore shouldn't be mentioned at all in the book conterpart section. CestWhat (talk) 17:33, March 18, 2013 (UTC)