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  • Contains spoilers for Beyond the Wall

    After watching the latest episode - which someone SOMEHOW found out about ahead of time and spoiled, I didn't believe it fully until I saw the episode - I have no doubt that the war against the White Walkers - even with Cersei on their side, as she will soon be convinced of their existence - is a TLC. Which in this context, stands for Totally Lost Cause.

    Even though we now know killing the Night King will wipe out all White Walkers and Wights, it's an impossible task. Killing Voldemort, Sauron, Jason, Pinhead, or even Thanos - who HASN'T died yet - is easier. (And I already have a theory on how the Avengers defeat Thanos in Infinity War)

    First, dragons can't get near him. DRAGONS. I thought they'd be the ones to defeat him. The Song of Ice and Fire told in the title of the books happened this episode, not the last, and it ended in victory for ice rather than fire. He ALWAYS has a spear handy, and if a dragon even started to fly at him, he'd throw the spear and kill it. We know it can kill dragons, coz we just lost one of them this way. That was worse than Ramsay killing that giant.

    Second, even if a dragon could get near him, what good would it do? Unlike other White Walkers, he's immune to fire. He walked through the flames and they dissipated as soon as he got close. If Drogon or Rhaegal shot a blast of flame at him, it would never connect with him. He simply cannot be burned, because his "aura" prevents it.

    So, only weapons of dragonglass or Valerian Steel can kill him. And, if dragons can't get near him without being fatally speared, no human can. Besides, even if they're wielding one of those weapons, they'd have to cut their way through hundreds of Wights and some White Walkers to get to him, and they'd likely be torn apart if they tried.

    Third, as if that wasn't bad enough, he's got an undead dragon on his side now. If he wasn't unstoppable before, he is now. This same dragon is the first dragon to die - and after our death scare with Drogon two episodes ago, with that weapon destroyed - and it was the Night King who killed him. The only way to take out the zombified Viserion is to kill the one who turned him - which is the Night King himself.

    I heard a rumor that George R. Martin said the only five characters to survive would be Tyrion, Jon Snow, Arya, Bran, and Daenerys. This is obviously someone lying to get people to worship him. The only character that will survive is the Night King. Possibly the zombified Mountain (who seems to count as his own character) coz he's already undead.

    So, the final episode is likely going to have the meeting with Cersei for the first half, and then the fight for the second half, in which everyone gets massacred by the White Walkers. Or else end like Angel with them about to face the evil army, but with a considerably lower chance of winning.

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    • While you do have many good points and all hope does in fact seem lost...I suspect that there will be a victory pulled out of ass. Believe me, it will be immensely unlikely and absolutely pyrrhic, but in the end the Night King will lose. George R.R. Martin said in 2015: "I think you need to have some hope...we all yearn for happy endings in a sense. Myself, I’m attracted to the bittersweet ending. People ask me how Game of Thrones is gonna end, and I’m not gonna tell them … but I always say to expect something bittersweet in the end," he said. "You can't just fulfill a quest and then pretend life is perfect."

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    • Basically, he said that the ending is bittersweet. It will end and the Night King will fall, but I suspect a fuckton of people are going to die. 

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    • I hope so.

      Because I have only ever known one show - other than horror movies - as mature as Game of Thrones: Spartacus, which ended in villain victory. Even though the first two seasons saw victory by Spartacus against the two men responsible for the death of his wife, and against unfavorable odds in Glaber's case, but in the end, he was killed by Marcus Crassus.

      Well, in six days, we'll find out, unless the next episode gets spoiled three days ahead of time too.

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    • It doesn't matter what are the odds : if someone is writing the story, then this someone will do whanever he wants. The writers are gods in this universe. If the writers (and George RR Martin) want the Night King dead, then he will die, no matter how powerful he is.

      So, we know that his fate depends on the writers. Personally, I can't imagine that we would have 8 seasons and 7 books only to see every character dies for nothing. What would be the point anyway ? Nearly no one wants to see that happen.

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    • I believe it will come down to good old hand to hand combat, with Jon Snow finally taking him down. 

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    • How is he even gonna get close enough to fight him? He's got a DRAGON now

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    • The dragon isn't invincible. lol There is still the option of Bran... who hasn't used his full potential yet or been shown using his skills all that much this season. Wights can be slain, just as the wight bears and so can a wight dragon. No idea how they'll do it...but it'll have to take some really good writing. lol

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    • Yeah, but it took the Night King to kill that dragon, even when Bronn was wielding Qyburn's weapon he couldn't kill Drogon, who destroyed it. Now they'll need something that can kill both a dragon and a Wight (or are they more vulnerable than White Walkers?).

      There is of course one way I know of that CAN kill him... killing the White Walker that turned him. Which is the Night King.

      Unless Drogon and Rhaegal return and hit him with a blast of flame. But will they?

      As for Bran, he's the Three-Eyed Raven now because his predecessor died, and let's not forget who killed him.

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    • KillRoy231 wrote:
      I hope so.

      Because I have only ever known one show - other than horror movies - as mature as Game of Thrones: Spartacus, which ended in villain victory. Even though the first two seasons saw victory by Spartacus against the two men responsible for the death of his wife, and against unfavorable odds in Glaber's case, but in the end, he was killed by Marcus Crassus.

      Well, in six days, we'll find out, unless the next episode gets spoiled three days ahead of time too.

      You do realize that Spartacus was loosely based on true story and that most key characters were actual historic characters? Which also mean that Spartacus couldn't end any other way then it did... but it also mean that writers of that show didn't have much choice in how to end the series.

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    • I think the last two dragons can be used to take out some of the wights making it easier for Jon or others to take out the white walkers with dragon glass and such. I don't think it's a done deal that the Night King will win in the end, but I do think there will be many deaths and a lot fewer men in Westeros when all is said and done.

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    • Ripett wrote:
      KillRoy231 wrote:
      I hope so.

      Because I have only ever known one show - other than horror movies - as mature as Game of Thrones: Spartacus, which ended in villain victory. Even though the first two seasons saw victory by Spartacus against the two men responsible for the death of his wife, and against unfavorable odds in Glaber's case, but in the end, he was killed by Marcus Crassus.

      Well, in six days, we'll find out, unless the next episode gets spoiled three days ahead of time too.

      You do realize that Spartacus was loosely based on true story and that most key characters were actual historic characters? Which also mean that Spartacus couldn't end any other way then it did... but it also mean that writers of that show didn't have much choice in how to end the series.

      I understand there was a historical Spartacus and rebellion, but it is clear that, while being based off a historical event, most of the story was made up, and it likely didn't actually happen that way IRL. For instance, they initially planned to kill Lucretia and Ilithyia at the end of Season 1 but kept them alive until Season 2, and rejected an idea for a subplot of Glaber being in love with his lieutenant, Marcus. There was a real Glaber, but no one knows what happened to him, while the fate of Glaber in the show is a lot less ambiguous. And, guys like Theokoles and the Egyptian do not exist.

      Manders87 wrote:
      I think the last two dragons can be used to take out some of the wights making it easier for Jon or others to take out the white walkers with dragon glass and such. I don't think it's a done deal that the Night King will win in the end, but I do think there will be many deaths and a lot fewer men in Westeros when all is said and done.

      Yeah, until the Night King spears them too.

      And, when I thought the Night King was beatable, and would die in the final episode, I of course suspected it to still be a bloodbath like the Deathly Hallows, especially if that rumor about the last surviving characters was true, it would have to see the deaths of Cersei, Jaime, Sansa, Baelish, Varys, Jorah, the Hound, Beric, Tormund, Bronn, Brienne, Podrick, Theon, Yara, Euron, Qyburn, Sam, maybe Ellaria, and any other major characters that aren't the five (Tyrion, Jon Snow, Arya, Bran, and Daenerys). Maybe not Daario if he's staying across the Narrow Sea.

      Besides, if they do defeat the Night King, with such a big battle ahead, it would still leave Cersei's plan to backstab Daenerys unsolved unless she either gains respect for her during the battle, or gets killed, eliminating that future confrontation altogether.

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    • That dragon will be killed with a Dragonglass spear that will be fired with the lannister's crossbow.

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    • And Dany literally cannot burn in fire... so wight Viserion could try, but it wouldn't kill her that way. 

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    • QueenBuffy wrote:
      And Dany literally cannot burn in fire... so wight Viserion could try, but it wouldn't kill her that way. 

      Yeah, but what if dragon wights breathe ice instead of fire?

      And, if the other two dragons stood a chance against the Night King and his army WITHOUT Wight Viserion, Jon wouldn't have had to do the near-sacrifice so they could retreat.

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    • Oh, and I just thought of something - what if the Night King rides Viserion for the final battle? Then it really would be impossible for Jon or anyone else to get near him.

      There is always the Mountain, as a zombie he can only be killed by fire - but being dead, he can easily be turned, to a Wight loyal to the Night King rather than Cersei and Qyburn.

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    • Bran will warg into the Night King without Jon Snow's knowledge and Bran will allow Jon to slay the Night King, killing himself in the process and helping the united armies defeat the army of the dead.

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    • Sbpoolboy wrote:
      Bran will warg into the Night King without Jon Snow's knowledge and Bran will allow Jon to slay the Night King, killing himself in the process and helping the united armies defeat the army of the dead.

      Now that would be a bittersweet end. Not sure if that is possible considering the Night King can see him in visions and knew he had warged into that raven.

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    • Here's what I believe will happen:

      The White Walkers, after passing through the Wall, attack King's Landing. Daenerys no longer has her dragons (killed by Cersei or the Night King, who knows). The living gather in King's Landing, waiting for the Night King to arrive. Thanks to Jaime, Jon and Daenerys now know of the caches of wildfire below King's Landing. Bran put them there, after going back in time and attempting to inform the Mad King about the Walkers and to "burn them all", giving him his madness. Jon and Daenerys go below King's Landing and light up the caches, destroying King's Landing, killing themselves, and destroying the White Walkers. In the end, Jon and Dany died together, killing the icy demons with fire.

      A Song of Ice and Fire

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    • SharkyBytesz wrote:
      Here's what I believe will happen:

      The White Walkers, after passing through the Wall, attack King's Landing. Daenerys no longer has her dragons (killed by Cersei or the Night King, who knows). The living gather in King's Landing, waiting for the Night King to arrive. Thanks to Jaime, Jon and Daenerys now know of the caches of wildfire below King's Landing. Bran put them there, after going back in time and attempting to inform the Mad King about the Walkers and to "burn them all", giving him his madness. Jon and Daenerys go below King's Landing and light up the caches, destroying King's Landing, killing themselves, and destroying the White Walkers. In the end, Jon and Dany died together, killing the icy demons with fire.

      A Song of Ice and Fire


      That's a cool theory. Especially since we know what happened with Hodor, that could have had a similar impact on the "mad king." However, is there any wildfire left? I thought it was all used up by Cersei?

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    • Sbpoolboy wrote:
      Bran will warg into the Night King without Jon Snow's knowledge and Bran will allow Jon to slay the Night King, killing himself in the process and helping the united armies defeat the army of the dead.

      That I could actually see. Of course if Bran can't survive the death of one he is warging into, it means the rumor was false. Still, if the rumor was true there would have to be a LOT of deaths this episode.

      Well... five days until we find out!

      Also, I think Cersei used all the wildfire on the High Sparrow (and everyone else in the area)

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    • There is still wildfire under King's Landing. Cersei only used a portion to blow up the Great Sept of Baelor. 

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    • Question - if the White Walkers kill everyone in Westeros, will they stop there or will they take the rest of the world as well?

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    • He won't win. 

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    • What if, it ends with Jon Snow and Daenerys about to fight the White Walkers, and they just leave it at that, just like Angel? What are we to assume? I'm hoping it doesn't, but what if it does?

      Though, I read the finale is supposed to be the longest episode, likely coz it has more to cover. Maybe we'll get a bloodbath but eventually someone kills the Night King somehow. (I almost want to think Tyrion will shoot him with dragonglass, except if my theory is right and he is riding Viserion, he won't be able to get a clear shot without getting blasted or eaten)

      As for Cersei, I estimate the Night King will turn the zombified Mountain into a Wight and he'll kill both Cersei and Qyburn. Whether or not he is defeated.

      To the wildfire theory: Remember the Night King's aura repels fire. And I think it was dragon fire he walked through.

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    • who HASN'T died yet

      Voldemort

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    • I was only referring to Thanos, because Voldemort, Sauron, Pinhead, and even Jason are dead. Listed them because they're all very hard to kill, and that there is a chance that Thanos might join them

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    • But I'm saying, if they decide to just leave it ambiguous as to how the battle unfolds, what are we supposed to think? I'd like to have a headcanon that Jon, Daenerys, and Tyrion will win, but I can't see how, I won't believe they destroyed the Night King unless I see it in the final episode with my own eyes.

      They probably won't coz it's gonna be a long episode, but I'm saying, if? If it's all non-action for the episode and at the end it shows the two armies charging at each other, and then the credits roll...

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    • Well, maybe Bran could warg into Viseryon.

      And as for the bittersweet ending discussion, maybe the showrunners have a different plan since the show is getting more and more independent from the books

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    • I thought George R. Martin was in contact with them telling them how it goes. Or is he allowing them to deviate from the plan from his books drastically?

      Despite that... a glimmer of hope returns. All Bran has to do is keep the Night King still atop his dragon long enough for Tyrion to get ONE clear shot with a crossbow using a dragonglass spear... and when the Night King dies, so does his entire empire. Looks like Game of Thrones does have a Sauron after all

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    • Of course, if Cersei lives through it and doesn't bend the knee to Daenerys... then what? Daenerys wasn't looking like she was going to win the battle with her. She did have one victory, but two losses, and won't attack King's Landing with her dragons, assuming she has any left after the battle.

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    • Just a little concerned it might end inconclusive like the final season of The Walking Dead, which seems to be a trend

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    • I love the Night King. He's so mysterious and powerful <3

      I hope that he's actually Bran, trapped in the past.

      And, what if dragonglass don't work on him? C'mon, he has a freaking dagger made of pure dragonglass inside his chest!

      All other White Walkers are people he touched and turned (just like warging). All lesser than himself. It makes sense for them to be easily destroyed for they are just thralls, functioning in some kind of hive mind society, but he's mightier, Champion of the Great Other or The Great Other himself!

      My guess is that somebody (one of the last targaryens, Jon or Dany) will sacrifice his/her life to destroy this menace, or simply imprison the Night King once again.

      Only time will tell, but I hope the White Walkers cause some serious damage to Westeros, reaching King's Landing, fulfilling Danaerys's vision.

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    • Most White Walker's are Craster's sons, right?

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    • If he's immune to dragonglass then he cannot be destroyed. Imprisoning him won't do coz he's got a whole army AND a dragon, the only way to stop them for good is to kill him, which cannot be done.

      If Daenerys's vision is the destruction of King's Landing, then we are getting villain victory after all, coz they'll have to go through Jon Snow and his team in the North to get there.

      And some of them are Craster's sons. I don't know how many of them, but some are.

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    • The NightKing will turn Cersei into a Wight and they will live happily ever after :-)

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    • Night Queen

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    • Probably. Unless she does something stupid and Jaime rejects and kills her in the finale, I imagine he'll turn the Mountain, he'll impale her, then the Night King will turn her.

      And that's that.

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    • Taking all this into account, I don't think the Night King is a White Walker. He's a ****ing god!

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    • KillRoy231 wrote: Taking all this into account, I don't think the Night King is a White Walker. He's a ****ing god!

      Maybe even R'hollor

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    • So how do you kill a god? Of the three White Walker-killing weapons, only one hasn't been tested on him. Can Valerian Steel kill him? Or will Bran reveal a Deus Ex Machina that can kill the Night King?

      Like, the only thing more powerful than the weapons we knew of are the Night King's spears. Unless THEY can kill him...

      I just watched a show that's almost as mature as Game of Thrones and has an invincible enemy who repeatedly survives fatal blows even though he seemingly dies each time, and it's in the third to last episode that his weakness is revealed, and he is one of the few characters to die in the show. But, I also read a book with another invincible enemy, and it's at the end of the final confrontation with him that the hero deduces his weakness and kills him.

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    • Just checked his article, so he IS a White Walker, but as the alpha white walker he doesn't seem to share most of their weaknesses. MAYBE Valerian Steel? Or, like Embryo and Rashek, he has some secret weakness not revealed until the end? After all, it was only last episode that it was revealed the death of a White Walker kills anything they turned

      Or, maybe he has no weakness, and is forever

      Well, today will finally put an end to speculation!

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    • I knew it I knew it I knew it I knew it I KNEW IT!

      They just ended it like that?

      Tell me there's one more episode, or even three, they haven't announced? They did not just end it with the battle about to take place and lead us to assume the White Walkers just massacre everyone in Westeros!

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    • 6 episodes

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    • There's an entire final season next year. (well 6 eps)

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    • My money's on 2019

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    • This was supposed to be the final season, how do we know next one is the final?

      Also, if there is another season, why doesn't wikipedia say so? It would have Season 8 under "Next", and if there's not enough information for an article, the text would be un-linked.

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    • KillRoy231 wrote:
      Contains spoilers for Beyond the WallAfter watching the latest episode - which someone SOMEHOW found out about ahead of time and spoiled, I didn't believe it fully until I saw the episode - I have no doubt that the war against the White Walkers - even with Cersei on their side, as she will soon be convinced of their existence - is a TLC. Which in this context, stands for Totally Lost Cause.

      Even though we now know killing the Night King will wipe out all White Walkers and Wights, it's an impossible task. Killing Voldemort, Sauron, Jason, Pinhead, or even Thanos - who HASN'T died yet - is easier. (And I already have a theory on how the Avengers defeat Thanos in Infinity War)

      First, dragons can't get near him. DRAGONS. I thought they'd be the ones to defeat him. The Song of Ice and Fire told in the title of the books happened this episode, not the last, and it ended in victory for ice rather than fire. He ALWAYS has a spear handy, and if a dragon even started to fly at him, he'd throw the spear and kill it. We know it can kill dragons, coz we just lost one of them this way. That was worse than Ramsay killing that giant.

      Second, even if a dragon could get near him, what good would it do? Unlike other White Walkers, he's immune to fire. He walked through the flames and they dissipated as soon as he got close. If Drogon or Rhaegal shot a blast of flame at him, it would never connect with him. He simply cannot be burned, because his "aura" prevents it.

      So, only weapons of dragonglass or Valerian Steel can kill him. And, if dragons can't get near him without being fatally speared, no human can. Besides, even if they're wielding one of those weapons, they'd have to cut their way through hundreds of Wights and some White Walkers to get to him, and they'd likely be torn apart if they tried.

      Third, as if that wasn't bad enough, he's got an undead dragon on his side now. If he wasn't unstoppable before, he is now. This same dragon is the first dragon to die - and after our death scare with Drogon two episodes ago, with that weapon destroyed - and it was the Night King who killed him. The only way to take out the zombified Viserion is to kill the one who turned him - which is the Night King himself.

      I heard a rumor that George R. Martin said the only five characters to survive would be Tyrion, Jon Snow, Arya, Bran, and Daenerys. This is obviously someone lying to get people to worship him. The only character that will survive is the Night King. Possibly the zombified Mountain (who seems to count as his own character) coz he's already undead.

      So, the final episode is likely going to have the meeting with Cersei for the first half, and then the fight for the second half, in which everyone gets massacred by the White Walkers. Or else end like Angel with them about to face the evil army, but with a considerably lower chance of winning.

      well, if i were a general preparing the defenses, i would sow the way of the army of the death with thousands of bottles with wildfire, and with a device i would detonate it, in order to kill the most part of the army of the death, i have the theory that the wildfire could be enough hot to kill even the night king because it is clearly a magical fire, something that he never face before.

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    • KillRoy231 wrote:
      How is he even gonna get close enough to fight him? He's got a DRAGON now

      they could rebuild qyburn's scorpion and adapt it to shoot spears with vidriagon spikes, or equiped with wildfire flasks

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    • KillRoy231 wrote:
      What if, it ends with Jon Snow and Daenerys about to fight the White Walkers, and they just leave it at that, just like Angel? What are we to assume? I'm hoping it doesn't, but what if it does?

      Though, I read the finale is supposed to be the longest episode, likely coz it has more to cover. Maybe we'll get a bloodbath but eventually someone kills the Night King somehow. (I almost want to think Tyrion will shoot him with dragonglass, except if my theory is right and he is riding Viserion, he won't be able to get a clear shot without getting blasted or eaten)

      As for Cersei, I estimate the Night King will turn the zombified Mountain into a Wight and he'll kill both Cersei and Qyburn. Whether or not he is defeated.

      To the wildfire theory: Remember the Night King's aura repels fire. And I think it was dragon fire he walked through.

      the wildfire is not normal fire, it could be noted by the color of their flames, surely it is enough hot to kill him because with the dragon fire the water was enough to extiguish it, something that doesn't happen with the wildfire

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    • btw viserion is not an ice dragon, he’s just a wight dragon. his dragon fire is just blue because of his status as a wight, but the fire isn’t ice.

      sorry for reviving the thread, i had to say it lol

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    • With all the respect to all of the comments above, I somehow feel that Jon and Danaerys will have a child who will be the only survivor as it’s a song of ice and fire. Not sure why I’m guessing this... but.... maybe Night King will not fall for a dragon glass. And maybe the Night King is Bran as guessed above by AdamMagus.

      However, I won’t be disappointed if the Night King wins because Thanos said that we all die but we should keep on fighting our only enemy which is death! And maybe Arya has something to do with her ‘no one’ skills here as she knows only one god which is the God of Death and she says to it only one thing which is ‘not today’...

      I love GOT. Can’t wait for the season 8 the finale!

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    • But didn't Cersei use up all the wildfire killing the High Sparrow?

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    • Bhargav1505 wrote:
      With all the respect to all of the comments above, I somehow feel that Jon and Danaerys will have a child who will be the only survivor as it’s a song of ice and fire. Not sure why I’m guessing this... but.... maybe Night King will not fall for a dragon glass. And maybe the Night King is Bran as guessed above by AdamMagus.

      However, I won’t be disappointed if the Night King wins because Thanos said that we all die but we should keep on fighting our only enemy which is death! And maybe Arya has something to do with her ‘no one’ skills here as she knows only one god which is the God of Death and she says to it only one thing which is ‘not today’...

      I love GOT. Can’t wait for the season 8 the finale!

      Of course we bring Thanos into it, the other imminent villain victory of a big series.

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