Game of Thrones Wiki


aka Gonzalo

16,942 Edits since joining this wiki
May 12, 2011
  • I live in Lima
  • My occupation is Theatre director, playwriter, actor
  • I am Male
Talk page archives
  1. May 2011 - May 2012
  2. May 2012 - December 2012
  3. January 2013 - December 2013

Splitting up the creature templatesEdit

I strongly feel that it is a mistake to break up the creature templates. You, I, and other regulars know how to find pages on these different topics - but a major library science principle is to remember that casual users do not even know exactly what they're looking for. Only rarely will they type a proper noun into a search engine. Thus the creature templates are a vital navigation tool, "access points" for people who are casual viewers and browsing their way through information.

I would argue to restore it as it was (mirroring how AWOIAF has one big template for everything). At the very least, I think there should only be a division between sentient beings versus animals (of all kinds) and plants. I also don't think that the Free Folk clans template should be separate from the "peoples" template. Non-human sapient races are also a concern. I strongly feel that separating the templates will harm navigation for casual viewers.

On a separate question...was it ever established that the Hill tribes belong under the "First Men" subdivision? I sort of assumed they may be remnants of the First Men of the Vale driven to the hills, but was their origin ever established in the books? For all we know they're part of the same Andal/First Men mix as everyone else (we've heard no mention of their religious practices, for example).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:23, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

I agree that I may have been a little extreme with the divisions. the truth is the only thing I found weird is having ine the same template a division of human cultures and ghost grass.
As for the Free Folk, since the Free Folk are descended of the First Men I found it weird to have them separate from the mini list that includes Northmen and Crannogmen.
Perhaps we can find a middle ground: one template for human cultures and another for all living beings, including a link to a "Humans" article that gives a little overview to humans in GoT setting and links to the different cultures.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:42, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
Regarding the Hill tribes, I think I have made the same assumption because, based on what little we know of them, their culture is more similar to that of the Free Folk and the Northern mountain clans (clan-based organization, raid-based economy, strenght-based leadership) than to the "more civilized" Andals.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:42, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I originally put "Free Folk" separately in order to show its best to portray the three-level subdivision of "First Men-->Free Folk-->Thenn"?
Yes, I think we should make it only two templates: one for humans, one for all animals/creatures/plants. Where do we put non-human races? I think they should be with humans - and that the divide should be based on "sapient" or not. I'm still not sure about the Hill Tribes given that we know so little about them, but I could go either way.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:51, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

Alton and Cynda Lannister Edit

So they are different Lannisters? who happen to share the same name with the real Lannisters? Nazul Rostello (talk) 12:50, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

Starks to StannisEdit

Why the shift from the Starks to Stannis?

(I do really like Stannis, in both the books and TV series. An added bonus is that he's actually part Targaryen. When all is done I hope Daenerys leaves Shireen in charge of the Stormlands).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:20, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Because the Starks are scattered... for now.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 04:23, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
You can still defiantly make your official support for the Starks, much as Brynden Tully's garrison at Riverrun and the Blackwoods at Raventree are doing.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:24, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Our WikisEdit

Hello! I was wondering, if you would consider having an affiliation w each other? I am the new Reign wiki. :) I love this show so hard and would love to be added on. As you would be added to my page of course. --~ Lorisa! (talk) 01:05, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Administrator QueenBuffy usually handles Wikia affiliation stuff, she can help you out.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:09, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

...I never saw this!! kk, thanks! :)

Locations categoryEdit

Things such as "Winterfell" are categorized as "Locations in the North", but currently are not put in the general category "Locations". Should such locations be in both? "Winterfell: Locations in the North, Locations"? Or, is the "Locations" category meant to be an upper-level organization of the other categories, "Locations in the North", "Locations in the Reach", etc.?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:36, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

I have taken the task to add everything in "locations" as well as their respective places. I stopped because of your conversation with Werthead. We must choose between "locations" and "geography".--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:46, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the rules. 

Queen of the Weirds (talk) 09:00, February 17, 2014 (UTC)Queen of the WeirdsQueen of the Weirds (talk) 09:00, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

Baratheons' Targaryen relationship from Histories & LoreEdit

Ugh. Check out: Robert's Rebellion (Histories & Lore) -- Varys and Littlefinger.

It says Robert Baratheon had Targaryen blood "through his mother."

As I explain there, in the books Rhaelle Targaryen was his father Steffon's mother -- and Rhaelle was the sister of Jaehaerys II, cut from the show.

The other option we suspected was that the TV continuity used Steffon's blood relationship to Orys Baratheon to justify Robert's claim to the throne...though Orys was never officially acknowledged.

At first I was frumious about this new revelation.

Now I'm starting to think it's not as crazy as it sounds: If they removed Jaehaerys II's generation, perhaps it was a simple matter of making Robert's mother a Targaryen, instead of his grandmother.

In which case Cassana Baratheon gets retconned out of existence (not that it matters much, she died in the shipwreck with Steffon long ago).

Nonetheless we're still not sure exactly how Robert's Targaryen mother would fit into the family tree: Aegon V's sister? TV-Aegon V's daughter, and thus sister to the Mad King?

This was probably the biggest info to come out of the Histories & Lore Season 3 (well that, and I think Joffrey sort of implied that he raped Tommen).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:15, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

Orys having Targaryen blood was implied in the "House Baratheon" featurette. The new "Through his mother" doesn't neccessarily imply Robert's mother was Rhaelle, only that his mother had Targaryen blood. As for Tommen I don't think Joffrey raped him but still subjected him to physical abuse.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:22, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

Well, Orys becomes a moot point if they say his mother had Targaryen blood. But if she wasn't Rhaelle, who was she? A new composite character?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:32, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

Occam's Razor: Cassana Baratheon had some Targaryen blood.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:42, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
Sorry I haven't been able to help out with the Season 3 Histories & Lore as much as I wanted -- once again, my ongoing work on my thesis is in very bad shape and eating up most of my time. I can only pop in for some of the major stuff, not thoroughly combing through everything. If I don't finish this and my language comps by May I'm not going to get my degree.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:49, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

​Targaryen KingsEdit

Hey, could you please read my blog post with the image of the Targaryen kings and tell me what you think? Much appreciated. Greater Good 14:37, February 20, 2014 (UTC)

Garden of Bones Edit

I'm concerned that someone has added information to the plot summary of Garden of Bones that does not happen in the episode. In describing the scene where Joffrey orders Ros to beat the prostitute, someone wrote: "While clearly remorseful for the girls' injuries, Tyrion refuses to let Joffrey bully him or others around." No such event occurs in the episode. In 2013 another IP actually removed a similar statement, but then someone put it back. Summaries should accurately describe the episode as broadcast, otherwise it harms the reliability of the wiki. It's possible there might be a deleted or extended scene - or perhaps the incident is referenced in a later episode where such a scene occurs - but I just watched the episode and it isn't in there. Anyway, I wanted to give you the heads up because if someone is adding either false info, or injecting info from future episodes (or perhaps even the books) that's probably a no-no. 15:50, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

...that isn't "vandalism", that's just "opinionated and skewed interpretation". It happens literally every day on wikis. Literally every hour, really. That's the constant struggle to maintain quality. Generically, yes, we know we need quality control checks on past episode reviews, but there is much work to do. Thank you for removing it though, it was not a good interpretation of what happened. If you want to actively help you should probably make a free account to help out.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:47, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

Wikia Game of Thrones Review Videos Edit

Hi! I work in marketing for Wikia -- highlighting cool things that our communities are doing around anticipated entertainment. 

We've got something fun planned around the return of Game of Thrones and I wondered if you might want to be a part of it. We're producing a short video each week that contrasts fan reactions to the series with a TV critic's reaction -- the idea is to capture the enthusiasm of the community here, and have a little fun back and forth.

I can give ya more details! If this sounds like something you might be interested in, give me a shout on my wall or email Thanks! Brian@Wikia 15:18, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

Hi Brian. I'm quite busy these months so I can't commit to this. Besides, these marketing Wikia things are QueenBuffy's territory.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:22, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

Jaime sends his regardsEdit

The actors were confused about that line? When did they explain this, in the Blu-ray commentary? What exactly was said?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:39, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

In the bluray extras about "The Rains of Castamere" they explain that the scripts originally said "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" and even Nikolaj was confused and asked if Jaime really was part of the conspiracy.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 22:02, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Brackets for Dead characters warning templateEdit

This has been happening frequently enough that I put together a quick template warning, so we don't have to waste time writing up individual explanations each time this happens:

I based it on the last warning you gave.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:39, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

I agree. It will save us some time.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 15:45, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

Redwyne and RenlyEdit

Please give a quote for what the Season 2 Blu-ray says about House Redwyne: [1] --The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:24, March 12, 2014 (UTC)

There are no quotes about House Redwyne whatsoever.--Gonzalo84

But your edit I linked says:

"Unlike what's stated by the Season 2 bluray, in the books House Redwyne doesn't declare for Renly during the early stages of the War of the Five Kings because Queen Cersei Lannister holds the twin sons of Lord Paxter hostage. They do join their Tyrell liege lords in aiding the Lannister army in the Battle of the Blackwater."

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:40, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, about that. The bluray shows the Redwyne sigils as Renly's supporters in the War of the Five Kings special feature.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 13:56, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

Pleasure HouseEdit

The term "pleasure house" has been used on the TV series, but I think it might be better to merge it into the "prostitution" article with a redirect. Also, do they only call them "pleasure houses" in Essos? I thought Westeros had "brothels".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:47, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't sure that they were called "pleasure houses" excluvisely in Essos. I created the Pleasure house article because of its association with slavery more than the "free women" in the brothels of Westeros.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:36, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

Culture infoboxEdit

On the culture infobox, some are "feudal-based" (Northerners, Andals, Dornish, ironborn) while others are clan-based (Hill-tribes). What should we do for some groups who are technically clan-based, but who use "House" designations as a formality? The Northern hill tribes haven't been introduced yet, but the book makes it a point that while they're more "clans" than "Houses", they're "civilized" and function as miniature Houses, treated with respect by being called "House Norrey" to be polite, etc. For the moment, we do have a similar problem with the Crannogmen: they live as basically clans, and hunt instead of farming, but they are formally organized and recognized as "Houses".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:10, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

I think they should remain in "clan-based" as well.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:39, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

I think that, specifically for the crannogmen now but later the Northern hill tribes, we should list them as "clan-based" but in the article mention that "they're clan-based but are extended the dignity of being called Houses".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:25, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

R'hllor typo in "The Climb"Edit

Did the Blu-ray release fix that typo in the subtitles for "The Climb" which misspelled the FIRST AND ONLY TIME that R'hllor has appeared on-screen?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:05, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

Haven't bought the bluray yet.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:13, March 17, 2014 (UTC)

Back from ThesisEdit

I stopped regularly editing about two weeks ago on February 14th to finally finish my thesis. I'll be catching up in the next few hours.

While I still have language comp tests, my thesis is finished - no more being driven crazy by it. More on this later.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:27, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Misbehaving templates Edit

Sorry it's taken me a while to get around to this; I've sent a report to Wikia's maintenance team, so we should get a diagnosis and hopefully a solution in the next few days.--The-Boy 12:24, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

It's been going on for weeks and even is having problems; but nothing will happen if we don't complain.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:15, March 18, 2014 (UTC)


I don't think we should use "Southerner" as an official term too much, specifically not in infoboxes. As the article explains, it's actually a fairly vague term, sometimes just meaning "not Northmen" (including Ironborn?); very loosely, "Southerner" can even apply to Dorne. So I think it is better to list people like Tywin Lannister or Catelyn Stark as "Andal" (yes they have some First Men blood, but they're mostly Andal, culturally Andal).

What culture do we put down for House Blackwood? They do...behave, as Andals.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:29, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

You're right... Andal may be more fitting. As for the Blackwoods they can remain Andals.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:45, March 18, 2014 (UTC)

Stark children religionEdit

What should we put down for the Stark children under the "religion" spot in their infoboxes? It was an interfaith family. Jon Snow specifically said he follows the Old Gods - probably given that he was influenced by Eddard but Catelyn had nothing to do with him. Bran...apparently, just worships the Old Gods, also strongly influenced by his father? And Rickon was influenced by Bran more than Catelyn before she left. Arya of course has the God of Death thing going on, but we have that covered.

I sort of got the feeling that the girls were more influenced by Catelyn than the boys were. In any case, in the books, what was the religion of Robb and Sansa? Robb seemed more Old Gods like his father - yeah the TV show cheated a bit by having him married by a Septon, but Cogman's rationalization made enough sense; he was raised in an interfaith household, fairly open to both, he might have just liked the ceremony or no one else was available. Sansa is a bigger concern: very much her mother's daughter, does she pray to the Old Gods at all? I mean I know she goes to a godswood to pray at times but that might just have been an excuse to get away from everyone.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:13, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

In the books Sansa finds solace in the Old Gods as a way to reconect with her dead father, and because the godswood is mostly empty. The closest we've got in the series is when she's praying by the tree stump and she's approached by Margaery, but we don't know if that's the Red Keep's godswood. --Gonzalo84 (talk) 22:16, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

Peoples templateEdit

I'm straightening up the Essos section; I added a subheader about the Free Cities.

How should we handle the rest? Particularly the Rhoynar and Valyrians? I'm not sure if we should say they're "extinct" or something...the Rhoynar survived as the Dornish, and the modern Free Cities do have Valyrian blood in them (thinned out, but particularly Lys and the aristocracy of Volantis) and also the Targaryens.

Also, should we make a division between "Central Essos" and "Eastern Essos" (Qarth and Asshai) or would this make the template needlessly complicated and long?

Most importantly, how are we handling the article on "Ghiscari"? Is this about the ancient "Ghiscari" of the old Ghiscari Empire, or about the peoples of Slaver's Bay in the present? (much as "Rhoynar" and "Dornish" are two separate things).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:25, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

Unlike Rhoynar and Dornish, there is only one name for both ancient Ghiscari and modern Ghiscari, so the "Ghiscari" article should include both peoples, the "pure" Ghiscari of the "Old Empire" and the mongrel Ghiscari of modern Slaver's Bay and New Ghis.

The show won't cover much of the eastern Essos, I don't think we'll ever see Asshai or Yi Ti, and the show hasn't even mentioned their people the way the novels did, so I think we shouldn't do much divisions.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:38, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

Bethany Ryswell and Bolton family treeEdit

I want to remake the Bolton family tree to resemble the one on AWOIAF (removing the unnamed miller's wife) - to include Bethany Ryswell. I'm fairly certain that Season 4 will eventually explain who Domeric Bolton was and that his mother was Bethany Ryswell, and we have heard mention of Domeric -- but at this point there's been no in-universe material about it, so would it be getting ahead of ourselves to update the family tree just now? Maybe we should wait until an episode mentions it?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:02, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should add Domeric, with his mother being referred to as "Lady Bolton (Deceased)".--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:16, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

Progress Edit

Okay, I've made some progress with investigating the issue with the family tree templates; apparently it's nothing to do with Wikia, but is being caused by Google Chrome itself! I've checked the pages in Firefox, and they work fine, so that does indeed seem to be the case. The technician I spoke to from Wikia said that the guys on the Fallout Wiki experienced the same problem, and liaised with Google to fix it, so it looks like we're going to have to do that. They're still working on fixing the title blacklist for us.--The-Boy 21:22, March 20, 2014 (UTC)

The weird thing is that some trees look good... like the House Stark one

Oh, I didn't realise that the Jon Connington article was written by Greater good; an admin. The title blacklist doesn't prevent admins for creating pages, just regular users. That being said, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. I'll be contacting the Fallout Wiki admins later today to find out how they fixed their rogue templates.--The-Boy 10:55, March 23, 2014 (UTC)

Edit Reverted Edit

Why did you undo my edit on all the pages I edited? That corrected a sentences and added more information? In addition, you gave no reason for that what so ever. It's very frustrating to have all of your work undone and not even get proper reason for why. So, if you could tell me that would be great. Zippertrain85 (talk) 15:26, March 21, 2014 (UTC)

'More' information sometimes is not necessary. I followed the old saying: "if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

  • Theon: redundant. And mentioning the castration way ahead of time alters the mood of the summary, that should go from the 'generic' torture, then the mind games, then more mind games, the castration, and the renaming into 'Reek'.
  • House Targaryen: If we place "unknown" in the founder section we should add 'unknown' to each article on a house without known founder. Its moot and, again, redundant. You also made a change so 'the East' became 'the Essos'
  • If you see, we try to avoid the term 'Humans' because its never used in the show.
  • In 'Mhysa', to be honest I undid your edit because I wanted to rewrite some parts. If you see I also altered: "Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane" because such wording is never employed in the show.

--Gonzalo84 (talk) 16:39, March 21, 2014 (UTC)

You didn't "correct" the sentences, you simply reworded them to your liking - without adding new information. Or, when you did add new information, it was too redundant.

Specific example Gonzalo84 already mentioned: The first part of "Theon Season 3" should contain the summary "Theon is tortured by Ramsay"...then describe in chronological order what happened. Instead, you inserted "including cutting off his fingers and castrating him"...which is redundant with the body of the section itself.

Putting "unknown" into the templates for "Founder"...was not "actual work". You only just joined and don't know how templates work; we'd have explained this if you asked. We leave founder blank if "we the audience" don't know who it was, but the characters within the narrative know who the founders of their Houses were.

As Gonzalo84 pointed out, we don't use "humans" on here; no one in the books or TV series uses "humans", they say "people", because non-human races are incredibly rare and believed extinct - and when they DO discuss say, the White Walkers, they talk about the "threat to the realms of men" not "humans".

I myself use "Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane" when first introducing him in an article, just so casual fans know what we're talking about, but I wouldn't use it repeatedly.

"All of your work" was 11 edits. That isn't that many reversions. The edits were not targeted because you made them or something, but judged on a case by case basis.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:31, March 22, 2014 (UTC)


I just gave Ardilaun a one week temp ban for several problems, which I have explained on his talk page. I really need you to weigh in on this. I hope I handled this well but if you disagree I will defer to your decision.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:10, March 23, 2014 (UTC)

Tommen and Dean-Charles Chapman Articles Edit

Now that it's confirmed that Chapman is playing Tommen, can those articles be unlocked so they can be updated?  Thanks.  TheUnknown285 (talk) 19:16, March 23, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for getting on that so quickly, Dragon Demands. Can you also unlock the Chapman article? Thanks. TheUnknown285 (talk) 19:32, March 23, 2014 (UTC)

"Must Watch" Videos Edit

This unsightly blemish has made a reappearance on some pages today. I want to complain to Wikia directly, and make it clear that we want this thing gone before S4 premiers. Just making sure we are all of one mind regarding this?--The-Boy 13:47, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

It showed up again a few days ago. I completely agree with you.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 15:58, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

How "Objects" category worksEdit

"Books" are a subcategory of "Objects". Does a single Book article, such as "Book of Brothers", get both the "Books" and "Objects" categories added to it, or just the "Books" category? The book articles are not currently consistent on this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:20, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm I'll defer to your judgment.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:44, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
Well, currently, "Arya Stark" is in the "Characters from the North" category but not the wider "Characters from Westeros" category, and "Syrio Forel" is in "Characters from Braavos" but not "Characters from Essos". It stands to reason that "Books" alone is enough for a Book article, not both "Books" and "Objects".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:49, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

RED ALERT: HBO Viewer's Guide has been rebuilt from scratchEdit

The HBO Viewer's Guide has been rebuilt from the ground up. As pointed out, it is very "Web 3.0" -- blatantly designed for use on iPhones more than ease of use on laptops. You have to scroll down using a mousewheel, instead of convenient browser the least, it functions more smoothly than Season 2's did in some parts (The Appendix stopped working when Season 3 premiered and continued that way until this week). Well, the navigation is a little weird (obviously meant for iPhone scrolling) but not the worst in the world once you get a feel for it.

Let me be clear: they retroactively revised the entire thing, Seasons 1, 2, and 3.

I remember when the updated Viewer's Guide for Season 3 was released; it was the same day that Season 3 premiered, and it was a little buggy for a few days while they refined it. I'm hoping the problems I have with it now will thus be smoothed over in the next week.

They have gutted all of the secondary noble House heraldry. The Karstarks, the Reynes, etc. all of that is gone.

The map has been completely updated from scratch. It's pretty ugly now, actually. An added feature is that you can zoom in on it now for more information points which don't appear in the worldview.

Again, maybe this is buggyness due to the new rollout: there is no "Season 3" homepage, at the moment you have to access everything episode by episode.

A good point I guess is that all of those "Inside the Episode" HBO-Go videos are now offered FOR FREE in the Viewer's Guid, in a convenient menu for each episode. So they've got that going for them.

Unfortunately, they continue to use the map which is not the same as Lands: actually it's fairly close up until Vaes Dothrak and Qarth, but afterwards it shows the Jade Sea as extending north when it actually extends south in Lands of Ice and Fire. Also, certain locations such as Bayasabhad have simply disappeared.

It's also odd that they don't list Oldtown on a map at all. Norvos and Qohor are also gone....even from the Season 1 episode 4 page, when Jorah even specifically says "I'm going to Qohor but will catch up in a few days."

One of the bigger problems is that THEY DO NOT HAVE A MASTER LIST OF HOUSES. Maybe because I'm stuck in episode-by-episode mode now.

But I think their concern was that complete noob TV-only viewers who get very confused would lost track of all of the Houses if they were in a big list -- such as, why include House Arryn in a list all the time? Fair enough.

So what they do is only list the major Houses "featured" in a given episode. I.e. they don't put an icon linking to "House Tully" or "House Greyjoy". Now Tully and Greyjoy pages DO exist, they just streamlined the menu to only show those important in a given episode (which do rotate throughout the season). Again, there was some justification in this because they list the "featured" ones.

I'm probably being too harsh; it's because I'm locked-in under a specific episode. They haven't finished making the "Season 3 homepage" which probably lists all of them.

At any rate the above are fairly minor problems: though I wonder, if they were redrawing the map FROM SCRATCH, making an entirely new drawing of the map, why bother to continue to recopy the incorrect one from Seasons 2-3? It's not as if the TV show itself got contracted by anything east of Vaes Dothraki or Qarth!

So the navigation is a bit annoying with the slider, though you adapt to that, and in any case they haven't finished the main page (why wouldn't they have a family tree for the Karstarks?)--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:29, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Anyway it's a good thing we've had plenty of time to pick the viewer's guide clean for heraldry that doesn't appear anywhere else.

One big complaint is doesn't easily distinguish between the rival sub-branches of "House Baratheon". You see the old Season 3 one had a homepage with each king on it, a nice big picture of each king along with it, and actually titled "The King on the Iron Throne" or "The King in the Narrow Sea".

The new one lists each of these by a House name, but with maybe limited space or something, EACH is called just "House Baratheon".

Going back to early Season 2, there are actually three icons that say simply "House Baratheon" - though they do have each of the three different sets of heraldry. Titles such as "The King in the Narrow Sea" are used only as subheaders.

Why not just call them "House Baratheon of King's Landing" and "House Baratheon of Dragonstone"?

Anyway there were a few errors here and there:

"Aegon Targaryen" is mispelled "Aegon Targaryena" with an accent (probably a typo)

The "House Tyrell" page's family tree uses the "House Baratheon of King's Landing" heraldry for Renly Baratheon! [2] (probably just a simple mistake; they do use his correct heraldry on the Season 2 House Tyrell page:

But now they give different quotes for each character's bio page which update each season (different quote for Jon Snow Season 1 and Jon Snow Season 2).

I do find it extremely offensive that someone chose for Loras's Season 3 bio pagequote, "A sword-swallower through and through" -- even if limited to season 3 quotes, wouldn't Sansa's "He's quite a fighter" from "Kissed by Fire" been much more appropriate? The quote they picked was crass (I lampshade that Olenna was just being very blunt in private).

The House Frey family tree was already a mess on the season 3 site, we'll wait until Season 4 updates (this revision to seasons 1-3 was mostly....cosmetic. Didn't change info really).

Only points of note from the Appendices are that it states the Alchemists' Guildhall is under Rhaenys's Hill, and have an entry for the Iron Bank of Braavos (they don't use possessive S with words that end in "S" like Stannis, but I've checked and the books do....for a long time I thought it was the other way around, but I'm slowly fixing this as I encounter it on the wiki).

Otherwise, they didn't update to include Martyn or Willem Lannister (again, neither did the older version). They *did* add in some better photos of Shireen Baratheon, who was barely featured with a fuzzy earlier photo in the original Season 3 Viewer's Guide.

We have one massive problem: The people who wrote the Viewer's Guide update now list her as "Sansa Lannister" in both the Lannister and Stark pages.


I say we should just plain ignore that - they also mis-use "Cersei Baratheon" instead of "Cersei Lannister" etc. I think we shouldn't assume the TV continuity is different on her name from this supplementary thing alone.....wait until on-screen dialogue says it or not in the Season 4 premiere.

I mean, the same Viewer's Guide under "Talisa Maegyr" spells it as "Volantine"...with an "i", instead of "Volantene".

So major changeups to the Viewer's Guide.

MAYBE this will improve when they have the actual Season 3 homepage done, which will list all.

And I do hope they update completely new info for Season 4. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:43, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

The House Stark family tree lists Sansa as Sansa Stark.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:01, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Greatjon Umber is called Jon "Greatjon" Umber.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:05, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Truth be told, the mistakes of the Viewer's Guide are of little concern to me. Remember how we corrected them once?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:22, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Eh, the mistakes weren't major. I just like picking over them. The "Sansa Lannister" thing was the only real point of note so far. Wait, when did we correct them?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:27, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
There was a mention in the appendix that Rodrik Greyjoy died trying to assault King's Landing. Someone here, I don't remember who, told Werthead, he got in contact with HBO and HBO fixed the appendix.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:47, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Walder Frey is also now Lord Paramount of the Trident, and Roose Bolton is Lord of Winterfell...--The-Boy 11:23, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps we could have Werthead contact Cogman and clarify if he had any input in the Viewer's Guide.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 14:40, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
Well I've been asking Werthead to try to contact Cogman for months to take a look at the Cargo Cult, that hasn't worked out yet.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:18, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
In this instance I think it was probably intentional. With Littlefinger up to his elbows in the Vale's power play it makes sense to just give the Riverlands to the Freys, for simplicity's sake. It was hinted at in the "Histories and Lore" segment for them, with Catelyn wondering out loud if Walder's delay in reaching the Trident was a deliberate ploy to aid Rhaegar's forces in destroying the Tullys.--The-Boy 16:29, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

POW symbolEdit

The prisoner symbol used in the battle infoboxes doesn't really show up well in the actual articles: Captured.png

Viewed within an article I don't think readers can tell it has a chain attached to it.

I think we should replace this with simply writing "POW", as readers are simply more familiar with this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:13, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, go ahead.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:20, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Institutes vs OrganizationsEdit

We never really well-defined the difference between "Institutions" and "Organizations" so to make things easier to find I've just removed the Institutions category entirely.

A separate problem: "Organizations" has subcategories, like "Military organizations" and "Religious organizations".

How were we handling this? Does the "Kingsguard" article get the category tags for both "Military organizations" and "Organizations" added to it?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 13:19, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Well, like "Characters" and "Season 1 characters"... or locations. They belong in both categories I think.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 14:49, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

I did this to aid navigation: as for other things like "Red Priest" or "King", those fit in under "Titles". Anything that's an "Institution" but not an "Organization", I think, is inherently a "Title". "Grand Maester" for example is a title within an organization, not a separate "institution". The definitions were too vague, and it actually makes it easier to find them if they're all under one big category of "Organization".--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:39, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Locations vs GeographyEdit

We need to get this sorted out:

The way AWOIAF does this is that everything is under the overall heading "Geography", while "Oldtown" goes under "Places in the Reach".

Do you prefer "Geography" or "Locations"?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:58, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

I like Geography more... it has a more "in-universe" feel... while we are at this, I must tell you I'll be rather busy these days. I'll mostly come in to create new articles following each episode and make my trademark conjecture articles whenever a possible book character shows up but isn't mentioned by name.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:47, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Ostensibly I've got language tests to prep for as well, I just feel like I don't have control on anything if I at least don't have some here. My goal of rewatching Seasons 1 to 3 start to finish has obviously been abandoned, but I hope to at least keep pace starting in Season 4. QueenBuffy said she might miss all of Season 4 without an HBO account; will you be less busy at some point?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:10, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
In two weeks I'll be more free.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:13, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
Similar situation on my end, really.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:15, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Two SwordsEdit

Will you open "Two Swords" right after it airs? Thanks.Mesmermann (talk) 20:05, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

Season 4 premiereEdit

Think of it: only 2 hours until Season 4 begins. Then the floodgates open. To say nothing of the horde of vandals, the massive amount of new work, we'll have dozens or even hundreds of random editors coming on making sloppy edits.

This will consume us, as you remember back in Season 3.

Good to be alongside you guys trying to handle this oncoming horde.

Have no illusions: not all of us will make it through premiere night alive.

The enemy is at the gates.

He who stands with me shall be my brother.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:09, April 6, 2014 (UTC)

I stand ready my brother. Let's open the gates--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:05, April 7, 2014 (UTC)

Ack. So many people were trying to login to HBO Go for the premiere that there was massive lag and I only managed to finish watching it by midnight. I did keep handwritten notes though, updating now...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:59, April 7, 2014 (UTC)


Given that Jaime calls her "Sansa Lannister" in the Season 1 premiere, you think that we might move the page at this time?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:53, April 7, 2014 (UTC)

Not really, it would be like moving Cersei or Margaery to "Baratheon". --Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:31, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
I meant "wink wink, nudge nudge" not for long. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:25, April 7, 2014 (UTC)

Tower of JoyEdit

The pages of the Book of Brothers which are visible actually establish how Arthur Dayne and the other Kingsguard died at the Tower of Joy.

Do that thing which must be done.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:25, April 7, 2014 (UTC)

I'm taking a language test today, I will catch up tomorrow if I pass. If not I will be vanquished.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 11:56, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Good look my friend. In the meantime I'll make a vague article titled "Showdown in the Red Mountains" without spoiling too much from the books.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 16:02, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Season 4 page protection Edit

Hi Gonzalo. Any chance of either updating the season 4 page now that Two Swords has aired or reducing the protection on the Season 4 page to registered users so one of us can do it. Things like updating the cast who have been on screen, moving Diana Rigg back to guest cast  (since she apparently wasn't promoted as expected), puting in the image for Two Swords and the viewers rating (6.64 million according to wikipedia, wow). Nothing too major but it would be nice to fix it up a little. Rachel P 22:37, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Also remove the TBC from the Season 5 link. It has been now commissioned along with Season 6. :)

Upcoming Community Videos Edit


I'm Brian and I work with Wikia. I'd like to talk to you about a bit of video programming we have planned for the Game of Thrones community, and maybe being a part of it. Would you mind dropping me a line on my wall or by email at when you have a sec? Thanks!!

--Brian@Wikia 18:02, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Dropping by to say hi Ashley Brown (talk) 08:45, April 13, 2014 (UTC)


I want to ban RConley1 ( - he's being very disruptive, has no idea how our spoilers policy works, and he hasn't actually contributed anything. He's been "harassing the Admins" enough and ignoring direct warnings that I suggest he just be banned outright. What do you think?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:23, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea to involve a neutral third party at this point. Here's my account of what has happened. First, TheDragonDemands perma-banned me for participating in an existing discussion about site spoiler policy. Then, after he unbanned me, I created an entirely factual account on my own talk page about what happened and invited him to either correct me on my version of the facts or to apologize. Instead, he has removed what I wrote and protected my profile and talk page. If those blocks are undone and TheDragonDemands leaves me alone, I make the following pledges:
1. I will never directly contact TheDragonDemands again.
​2. I will not advertise my documentation of his unilaterally perma-banning me.
3. If you can point me to a specific rule that forbids me from engaging in a discussion about site spoiler policy, I will follow the letter and the spirit of that rule.
4. I will strive to contribute usefully to the wiki in whatever way I can, given my limited knowledge. I write for a living and can often find grammatical mistakes, at least.
In addition, I'd like to express in good faith that I have voiced my opinion on the site's spoiler policy and I'm satisfied in that regard. I do not intend, at this point, to pursue the matter of spoiler policy any further. At this point, all I want is to be able to factually document, on my own talk page, what I believe to be a wrongful ban and harassment at the hands of TheDragonDemands. Thank you, and I'm sorry that this matter is now drawing in other admins. Rconley1 (talk) 19:10, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

You haven't actually contributed anything. Your sole purpose for coming onto here was to complain that we prominently say that Joffrey died on the front page - the rest has been days of effort to harass me.

Major question I have: you never had a Wikia account before. You never edited anything with the "RConley1" username, though you followed Admins from here to Downton Abbey Wiki, Buffy Wiki, to complain. A smarter man would have simply started over from scratch and picked a new screename, given that you haven't actually made any edits with your week old account. So why do you keep trying to have it unbanned? Wounded pride?

"Sorry this matter is now drawing in other Admins"? Liar. You attempted to contact Gonzalo84 days ago via the Buffy Wiki. You were the one who "dragged in other Admins".

Are you worth any of this? --The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:18, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Your banning me, harassing me, and preventing me from factually documenting that ban and harassment on my own talk page are all unfair, and I wish for my user page to reflect all that until and unless you apologize.
am​ sorry that you are preventing me from discussing this matter in an appropriate place, ​such as my own talk page!
This would be over and you would never hear from me again if you could live with your unfair actions being written down on a lowly, unknown user's talk page, but apparently you can't. ​If you stand by what you've done, then why is it so important to you that my talk page not reflect that?? Rconley1 (talk) 19:27, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

You fail to understand: I told you I would unban your account, on the condition that you simply go back to regular editing, and never discuss your complaints about the spoiler policy again. Making a long list on your talk page saying you felt wrongly slighted at a temp ban...directly violated the order I gave you not to mention your original complaint. I erased this because I specifically ordered you not to write anything like that. Do you comprehend that you violated a direct order after promising that if I unbanned you, you would behave?

"this would be over"...."this"? You mean your harassment? You are in no position to negotiate or to make demands.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:40, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Show me where I promised anything​ to you in exchange for undoing your wrongful ban. Show me. I specifically refused your offer over and over. Also, now you're calling your ban a "temp ban"? Really? You had every intention of making it permanent. You even banned my damn IP address like some spammer so that I couldn't create another account, forcing me to take my case to other wikis. Rconley1 (talk) 19:46, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

(Reading through your post against me) buffoon. You cited the time I asked for a group vote to ban LovelyChrys as an example of me "pioneering" the practice of permanently banning people from the cite? Major vandals? I'm not the first Admin to come up with the idea of permanently banning disruptive people.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:43, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

I said that because Opark77 said "we've never permanently banned a user" in response to your proposal to do exactly that. A reasonable deduction, I think, but I can remove that part if you want, even without specific proof that I'm wrong. Anything else you'd care to rebut? (I think we can both do without the name-calling, though.) BTW, I'm happy to continue this discussion on my own talk page, where it belongs, if you unprotect it.
Please consider my four specific pledges above, which I think give you the vast majority of what you want. All that will remain of this fiasco is a documentation of what you did to me on a talk page that probably no one will ever read. You can even have your own section to rebut my account of the facts. I really think the offer is quite reasonable. Rconley1 (talk) 20:09, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

I unbanned your account because you complained, but at the same time I left you with an admonishment that if you complained again about this I would ban you again.

Technically, you never overtly promised anything, but you tacitly functioned under this condition when I unbanned your account and warned you as such, hoping you would simply let the matter drop. Perhaps I was wrong to remove your original ban?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:57, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

"I said that because Opark77 said "we've never permanently banned a user" in response to your proposal to do exactly that."....he said that nearly TWO YEARS AGO. I wasn't even an Administrator at the time. Opark77 doesn't actively contribute to this wiki anymore. Do you actually bother to read through any of this?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:16, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
Rconley1 has done nothing to warrant a block of any duration, let alone a permanent ban. Also, it's completely unacceptable to prevent a user who isn't banned from editing their own talk and user page... much less to attempt to ruin the show for them by violating the very same spoiler policy that you're both arguing over on their own page. Pasting the spoiler policy onto his user page, and then locking it... insulting him... this is appalling behaviour, Dragon, and you of all people should know better.--The-Boy 20:45, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
Thank you very, very much. I really think that at this point, this is a personal vendetta for him. Rconley1 (talk) 20:59, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Completely new users should not be allowed to harass the Admins like this. Gonzalo84, how do you stand on banning this guy?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:16, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, "harassment" in this case means carefully and factually documenting what has occurred on my own talk page. Rconley1 (talk) 21:26, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
He is not "harassing" you, and he will not be banned. Now, please draw a line under this sorry debacle. Rconley1, you're welcome to your opinions, but I'd encourage you to actively contribute if you want them to be taken seriously.--The-Boy 21:49, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

There has been some miscommunication here and I'm not entirely sure what RConley1 was actually intending; please see my comments on his talk page.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:03, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

That's fine. You both you should just call it quits and move on.--The-Boy 22:11, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
That's what I wanted to do. Posting "I just had an argument with mean Admin TDD" on his talk page seemed like he was needlessly opening old wounds.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:13, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
TDD has apologized for banning me and admitted that he mistook someone else's comments for mine. That's all I ever requested in order to take down my account of what happened, and so I have honored my promise, even though I think maybe this site would be well-served by documentation of the abuse to which I was subjected. My only hope is that the next person to cross his path is treated with a tiny bit more respect and consideration than they otherwise would receive due to my efforts here. Thank you, TDD, for your apology. I accept. Rconley1 (talk) 22:53, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Alright, he has removed the material from his talk page. I am no longer urging that he be banned. All is well.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:57, April 20, 2014 (UTC)

Hello! My name is Sam and I just wanted to say that I am new to the Wiki, I am a huge GOT fan, And hope we can talk about it please message me back ;D

Samuel Stark

I was trying to edit Ygritte but it is protected. Season 3 addition: Thanks!

Kat "Stopping to rest and tend to his injuries after fleeing the wildlings, Jon Snow finds himself confronted by a furious Ygritte, who has an arrow ready to shoot him. Jon tries to talk Ygritte out of shooting him, insisting that he still loves her but that she should have known his loyalty to the Watch was never gone. Though his feelings are clearly reciprocated Ygritte is still angered by his betrayal and shoots Jon three times with her bow as he flees from her, watching him go with tears in her eyes."

​Hello Samuel, I will now add this new information to the Ygritte page. Create a account and you will be able to edit on more pages! :) -- The Snow Prince (talk) 21:20, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

​Bowen Marsh/Othell YarwyckEdit

[3]Greater Good 22:41, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I suspect they realized that if Bowen Marsh was indeed in the expedition north of the Wall, he'd be dead - given that the TV version gives Jon, Sam, Grenn, and Dolorous Edd as the only survivors.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:35, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

Wiki acting slowEdit

I can't open history tabs to see history or Protect pages; images are displaying weird and fuzzy (or zoomed in), and contents menus aren't loading. Is anyone else having these problems?

I'm juggling a lot of tasks: my final language test to get my medieval degree is next week. This has slowed me down the past three weeks but I contributed what I could. What do you feel are the most important tasks to focus on right now?

I'll get back after midnight and try to fix up more things before then.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:35, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

I'm also having these problems in Chrome, but not Firefox. Wikia also keeps refusing to publish my edits... the editor just reloads with a message at the top saying "your changes haven't been saved", or something like that.--The-Boy 11:24, April 27, 2014 (UTC)
I'm having trouble with high quality images. They load in low quality.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 22:07, April 27, 2014 (UTC)

I've been gone for a few days because I had to take my last language test. I've passed everything, my thesis is finally done, it's all over. I now have a Master's degree in medieval history. I'll be back on the wiki more often now - I was barely around for the first four episodes of season 4, I'll try to catch up.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:39, May 2, 2014 (UTC)

Benioff and Weiss are consciously ignoring feedbackEdit

I can sympathize with their point that "we don't read messageboards, because the comments are weighted to irate fanboys and might not reflect true feedback, or if only 1 out of 10 comments is negative it disproportionately affects your creative process later".

Well and good. But HOW LONG have we lived "with the internet" and viewer feedback. I'm not talking about pandering to messageboards....what about when *official reviews* by newspapers or Entertainment Weekly and such say "Talisa Maegyr was an incredibly dumb idea"? There was even a "roundtable of noteworthy reviewers and critics" organized by T. Sean Collins.

The hypocrisy of it all is that Bryan Cogman makes it a point to use twitter feedback now (starting again in Season 4), does fansite Q&A, etc.

The trick is....DO NOT randomly jump onto messageboard threads! Read the major critical reviews! If nothing else's semi-authoritative reviews (albeit I never agree with them on the Tyrells).

The "trick" of "judging viewer response" is when something consistently pops up (again "Talisa isn't a good idea", or "female viewers are annoyed that you removed any political agency from Catelyn Stark and reduced her to whining about her babies instead of a tough as nails politician".

I have, of course, seen other TV series which disintegrated because they started pandering to the online rabid fanbase which didn't reflect reality (I remember how in late Battlestar Galatica, the show falling apart around them, the writers still found time to spur-of-the-moment insert messageboard in-jokes or tumblr gags....then act as if this meant they were "paying attention" to the concerns of the fanbase, ignoring how the rest of the series was spiraling out of control).

That's what I made the god-damned Cargo Cult for. That's why this is the business we have chosen for ourselves; the hope that pointing out factual things about the show on this wiki will in turn inform the larger fanbase as a whole. And with nearly 2 million hits a day since season 4 began, I really like to think that we're doing something.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:42, May 5, 2014 (UTC)

Joffrey Baratheon protection Edit

Joffrey Baratheon is protected even from established editors. I tried to make some tense corrections and couldn't. Alatari (talk) 08:02, May 8, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad to contribute.

Busy in first half of Season 4Edit

Ack, I'm back now. I was busy finishing my thesis and passing my Latin and French placement tests, but they're completely done now. I was also busy with preparing for graduation stuff this month (I will now hold a Master's degree in medieval History) - but I'm finally free to be on the wiki more; I did what I could, with the new front page navigation and stuff, but I've largely been in "standby mode" and I need to go back over the first five episodes worth of stuff.

We've been shorthanded for the workload (with QueenBuffy losing her HBO access, and Werthead...) so I'm starting by going into "see all edits" back through April 6th. Starting with "see only anonymous edits" (though there are something like 2,000 of those). Just to check for vandalism that slipped through the cracks.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:04, May 11, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for my continued low activity: now that I've graduated (and hold a Master's degree in medieval History, yay!) I had to move into my new place. I've been pushing furniture around and unboxing the past few days. I will make use of the Memorial Day holiday weekend to catch up. Is there anything major that needs work immediately? There is quite a backlog and I was hoping Werthead would catch up on some of this stuff. Well, I at least kept the handwritten notes when I was watching the episodes; I'm going to have a rewatch maratheon.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:44, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

Images now have a "posted by" watermarkEdit

Why do thumbnail images now have a "posted by" watermark? This takes up additional space and loots a bit...garish.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:24, May 11, 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:49, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, sorry about my sudden surge of photos. I just wanted to add some much needed updating to some of the various character pages in order to add depth. It was just bothering me for some odd reason, haha. I replaced the one File:Sansamarg photo with better cropping :) for some reason I was having trouble simply replacing the image. Again, sorry! MR.Flix (talk) 00:15, May 19, 2014 (UTC)


How are we handling people who are "From" one place but live somewhere else? Missandei is "From" Naath, but also "From" Slaver's Bay because she's lived there a long time. Similarly Grey Worm was "from" the Summer Islands in the sense that he was taken as a baby in a slaving raid, but he grew up in Slaver's Bay. I thought it would aid navigation to just add both categories to an article.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:16, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I was following the example set by Xaro Xhoan Daxos article: just from the Summer Isles. He's listed as "Qartheen" because he's culturally a Qartheen. If we add Missandei and Grey Worm to "from Slaver's Bay", shouldn't we also add Dany to "from the Free Cities"?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:26, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
...Arguably, I actually think we should do that with Daenerys. The books don't exactly focus on it, but she's a lot more familiar with the Free Cities than she is with Westeros.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:33, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Joss StilwoodEdit

No, I don't know for certain that that's him, but he was always Gregor's squire in the books.Greater Good 18:34, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Family tree templatesEdit

Please deal with this as you see fit.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:48, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Timeline policy discussionEdit

Please give your views on this:

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:54, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

Need your position on this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:31, June 11, 2014 (UTC)


Is IMDb a reliable  source? The last two episode are added to creditboxes on Stannis Baratheon and Davos Seaworth page by User:The Snow Prince, bacause IMDb says so.--Mesmermann (talk) 12:57, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

It is not a reliable source... they were listing Ralf Kenning as appearing on the last episode.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:21, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
So if someone writes is as their source, we have to remove it, right?--Mesmermann (talk) 11:52, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
Indeed.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 23:43, June 8, 2014 (UTC)

Sigils in battle and war infoboxesEdit

I know the sigils go on the left on wikipedia, but on this wiki it made the infoboxes look very cluttered. --Greater Good 06:44, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Season 4 finaleEdit

The Season 4 finale is upon us. The internet is going to explode after this one, on par with or surpassing the Red Wedding or Ned Stark's death. Enough traffic that the site itself might slow to a crawl, much less all of the vandals or random anonymous editors who need to tinker with it.

The hordes are closing in.

This is where we hold them.

Remember this day.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:52, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

Tonight we fight! and when the sun rises, GoT Wiki will stand! The Admin Watch will stand!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:00, June 16, 2014 (UTC)


Gonzalo, can you unlock my user page? I will make one edit updating the page, and then you can lock it again. Thanks! – The Snow Prince (talk) 19:46, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

New AdminsEdit

Due to the absence of some our numbers were low in Season 4. I think we should add about two more Admins. Off the top of my head I was toying with suggesting Daemon Targaryen and Rachel P - if they felt up to it and if they would continue to edit enough to merit it. They're both reliable workers and (as far as I can tell) seem to approach the work seriously.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:16, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

Due to my regrettably limited time recently, I'm not able to take a position on this or The Snow Prince situation. I'm hoping I can up my attendance soon, once I can drop the current day job :) --Werthead (talk) 20:17, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
Drop it for what?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:42, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Uploading GIFs Edit

I want to have a section of my user page for GIFs. Am I allowed to upload them? --Iron Bank (talk) 02:39, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry-- hate to bother you, but the user SiKeDFiction is being a total stupid son of a drooling whore and a monkey and throwing crass language into pages.  I fixed one, but I have a feeling he's going around and doing it to more, and it's just annoying.  If you could send him a notice or something to get him to stop/grow up?  Thank you!

Blocking Edit

Do you know how to undo vandalism on a page from the first moment it started? I am undoing and undoing and it is just taking forever. It's on my other page. QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 19:28, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

1 - Go to the history tab.
2 - Find the last date before the vandalism started. If the vandal started on June 30th, you find the last real edit on June 25th. Click on this date to view the page as it existed on that past date.
3 - Click "edit". You will see a page that says "warning, you are editing an older version of the page. Highlight and copy the entire contents of the page. Do not click "save", but close the window and go back to the current version.
4 - Click "edit". Delete everything. Then Paste in the older version of the page you copied. And click "Save".
This is labor-intensive but ultimately the only reliable way to undo multiple bad edits.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:30, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
Thanks TDD. I went ahead and had to delete the entire page contents. It was going back like 200+ edits. Ridiculous. QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 19:55, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

(I figured out what you were saying and went back far enough to at least return it to some kind of normalcy. Thanks. QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 20:01, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

Hi :) sorry about the Shae images having the black lines I didn't realise it :( I fixed them both now ! :)

KirstenAbela (talk) 09:15, July 4, 2014 (UTC)

Mag Mar Edit

I noticed an editor asking about the protection level on Mag Mar Tun Doh Weg's page. Is this something that needs to stay in place? I thought I'd ask since you were the admin who originally protected it. Thanks. QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 17:34, July 12, 2014 (UTC)

Freys vs BaelishEdit

Please weigh in on this:

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:26, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

We're waiting on your vote to take action.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:50, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Historical Targaryen family treesEdit

I've been setting up the Targaryen historical family trees for a few days, as you've seen.

What should we do with "bridge" characters that "bookend" two different eras? Specifically, how Jaeherys I comes at the end of the Conquest era but also at the beginning of the Dance of the Dragons era template.

Some of these family trees can get very long, and it's odd to put two of them - though I experimented with this on the Jaehaerys I Targaryen page.

There are eight characters who "bridge" across two eras: Aerion, Aemon, Aegon V; Daeron II, Daenerys of Sunspear; Aegon III, Viserys II; Jaehaerys I.

The earlier ones like Jaehaerys I have such little core content that I don't think it's that much of a problem, but Aemon is a TV show character, so his article is also quite long.

Currently, if you start at Aegon I the Conqueror you can click through the family trees all the way down to Daenerys. But going up from Daenerys to Aegon I is slightly more difficult.

I'm going to leave it like this for now because I'm hesitant to take up so much space with TWO family trees.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:12, July 19, 2014 (UTC)


Unfortunately I have to go to a friend's wedding in another part of the country so I will be away from the wiki for a few days - and I just realized that this weekend is San Diego Comic-Con so we might be getting new casting announcements. Crud.

I'm also backlogged through July 20th. Well when I get back I'll just sit down and have to proofread it all. I will check in for major news from my hotel if I can.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 07:28, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Need to fix these:

Loras is a major character. Edd and Grenn are not. Bronn eventually is a "major" character as he is credited as "starring" after Season 1. How do we handle characters who start as recurring but later get promoted to "starring"? I'd rather keep the original albeit longer explanation that "he started out as a recurring guest but then got promoted to starring, he is a major character". Same problem with Samwell Tarly.

Alliser Thorne is not a major character. Rickon Stark is not...yet.

I banned this guy from Paris but on second thought I'll lift it, treating it as a warning. May be some language barrier issues...--The Dragon Demands (talk) 07:33, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

Sword infoboxEdit

The new sword infobox you made is very nice.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:50, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Wiki map feature just got activated?Edit

What the heck is this?

The logs say that a "maps" wiki extension was activated.

Who wrote this thing? It has no "History" tab. Nor does it have any user protection levels so we have no means of policing if it gets abused. Is it even displaying anywhere?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:10, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Read immediately:

Their launch video even used "Westeros" and "where was Daenerys Targaryen born?" as examples, and there's already a Westeros map setup, but they didn't think to contact the Admins here first - so there isn't really much to look at just yet. I've actually wanted interactive maps, this is just a bit sudden and I wish there had been better communication.

We need to figure this out.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 04:44, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Issue w/ Admin Edit

Hi Gonzalo84,

I seem to be having an issue with one of the other admins here, The Dragon Demands. It seems like he/she took one of my edits rather personally and is now saying that I am taunting the admins and is threatening me with a warning ban. Wikia says I can speak to other admins if I'm having an issue, and looking through your history you seem to be a bit more level-headed and less hostile, wondering if you could look into it. It's on my talk page. Really, I'm just worried about a wikia where one of its admins is treating users with such hostility over a non-malicious case of editing, specifically one where said admin was placing his personal speculation about GRRM's opinions of D&D's adaptation into a non-talk page similar to how a tabloid might write it.

"This implies the startling possibility that Benioff and Weiss simply didn't tell Martin that they had so drastically altered the reasons behind Tyrion's murder of Tywin. Either that, or even when Martin was directly asked "why did Tyrion kill Tywin in the TV series's season finale?", he disagreed so strongly with the change that he refused to acknowledge it by proceeding to describe Tywin's death as it occurred in the books. "

The Children Thanks for listening. --Padenton (talk) 05:59, August 6, 2014 (UTC)


I will reword the "The Children" article because yes, there is a chance that EW was just misrepresenting the "context" of GRRM's statements.

Wait...were you upset that the article compares the book and TV version of Tywin's death....or more specifically, that you felt I misinterpreted the Entertainment Weekly article? Because if you felt I misinterpreted a specific point, fine. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:36, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Vandal Edit has made a spam page on the Wiki, I assume you can deal with this? Lord Heisenberg of House White (talk) 21:07, August 19, 2014 (UTC)

First week of schoolEdit

I apologize for being in "standby mode" since September began; it was the first week of school and I had to get a handle on that in real life. I'm back now and catching up on the past 700 posts - then to finally get back to my "To Do" list.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:58, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out my spelling mistake. Is there anything else you would like to tell me?

Please read immediatelyEdit

Please read this immediately:

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:25, September 27, 2014 (UTC)

Please e-mail me so we can discuss things privately. If you don't want to use your main real-life e-mail make a dummy account for wiki purposes as I have. My wiki e-mail is Dragon Demands (talk) 23:55, September 30, 2014 (UTC) guys wanna team up and take over Game of Thrones Wiki?Edit guys wanna team up and take over Game of Thrones Wiki?

I've initiated a Vote of No Confidence in Adam Whitehead, aka Werthead.

Under the new regime I've proposed, we will have three co-head Wiki-Bureaucrats (like the Triarchs of Volantis) sharing power jointly: Gonzalo84, QueenBuffy, and The Dragon Demands.

Adam's one person: we're three.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:43, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

The current situation is this: the Wikia Staff say they can't remove Adam, that's simply up to us. Depending on how the other 5 Admins vote in the forum thread I started. Wikia Staff has no control over that. With no repercussions from them if we vote to remove Adam's Administratorship, and/or decry his inactivity. I already voted to remove his Adminship, so that leaves the four of you. I've spoken with you each via e-mail to know that you guys either didn't actively support him, or said in as many words that we need new leadership.

If I die, I die. But before that, I'll live. The show is going to end in three or four seasons, and I realized I couldn't keep going on in what time remains with Adam claiming credit for all the work going on here, when his activity fell down to ridiculous levels. If I lose everything for that - it happens. But I couldn't keep going on being taken advantage of like that. I'd rather go out on my own terms. Well, read through his responses and my responses in the forum thread thoroughly. I will respect your decisions.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:35, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Well, of the five active Administrators including you and me, the other four have all voted "Yes" to revoking Werthead's status. The last vote is yours.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:14, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Vote for new BureaucratsEdit

The Wikia Staff said that even though Werthead is stepping down voluntarily, we need to have an open vote to determine who will now be promoted to Bureaucrat status. Please check it out: --The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:38, October 13, 2014 (UTC)



Game of Thrones Cast ListEdit

Hello Gonzalo84,

I was wondering if you could possibly help me with something. I was recently contacted by one of the cast members of GoT for season 5 and she was wondering if she could get added to the cast list. Her name is Mary Jordan and she will be in Ep. 10 of the 5th season. Any chance we could add her to a TBA character as she is not allowed to yet speak of the character she was cast as. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Mighty No. 9 (talk) 17:41, December 11, 2014 (UTC)​

Telltale GamesEdit

We need your vote on this, everyone else voted already:

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 17:07, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Fan StudioEdit

Hi Gonzalo84,

I tried emailing you the other week in regards to an exclusive opportunity; hopefully, it’ll be of interest! In conjunction with Telltale Games, Wikia will be working to create a unique experience for visitors of our Game of Thrones community, specifically the pages centered on the episodic Game of Thrones: A Telltale Game. I wanted to see if you'd be interested in joining us.

I’m contacting select fans of both the HBO series and the Telltale Tale Games series to see if they’d like to help with this initiative, and your Wikia activity identifies you as a great prospect. Participation in the project will involve sneak peeks at upcoming episodes, exclusive access to game developers, and other great perks not available to the general public.

Interested? If so, the first step is to join us in the Wikia Fan Studio -- the virtual environment where our project will take place.

You should’ve already received an invitation to register; if you haven’t, please do let me know and one will be sent promptly. Even if you aren't interested in this particular project, registering with the Fan Studio will allow us to match you with other upcoming projects that could be a great fit!

Remember, you’re never under any obligation to participate in a project, and the info you provide is kept in accordance with our privacy policy.

And please do refer any other Wikia community members you think might be a fit for this program by passing along a link to their user page. We value your opinion and want to insure the best candidates are invited into this project.

Let me know if you are interested or have any questions,

Knakveey (talk) 00:36, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

Affiliates Edit

Hi :) My name is John and I'm an admin on Mistresses Wiki.

I just started watching the show and upon visiting the wikia I saw the affiliates list. I was wondering if you'd be interesting in affiliating my wikia ? :) --Zooomi 21:30, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Appointing new Admins for Season 5Edit

Please check this out:

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:37, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

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