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TV continuity canon and dialogue errors
"Nameday" is the canon term, though actors have at times said "birthday" on-screen, these are assumed to merely be dialogue errors -- not confirmation that in-universe, "birthday" is a term they use.
Issue comes up on Talk:Rape: "Rapist" is not a term ever used in the novels (I don't think). Thus the one or two times that actors have said "Rapist" in the TV series are taken to be dialogue errors - not up for personal interpretation, but declared dialogue errors until proven otherwise. The fact that a writer and/or actor made an unintentional mistake in one or two episodes should not redefine what is canon and what is not.
- We can use "raper" and "rapist" as synonims for now.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:35, February 13, 2016 (UTC)
Infobox Shield policy
We're going to need to set more clear rules about the shields above infoboxes going forward - there were 3 or more at one point above Loras's to show changing allegiances. Sansa's was also a mess. Cleaned up more now - generally I think there should rarely if ever be more than two. Not sure - need to make sure other admins figure this out.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 07:19, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
It's going to be a long and laborious overhaul, but eventually we need to update the character categories. My original and too subjective idea was that "Starring" was an artifact of the TV production process, so Loras is still a "Major character" even if the actor isn't starring.
....then a while ago I realized this was all too subjective and editors would keep fighting over it, so we might as well just go by billing status: "Starring" for this starring actors, "Recurring" for anyone in more than one episode, and "Guest" for people who only appear in one episode (though this can be vague as "Lannister guard with no speaking lines #2" and "Maester Cressen" both appear in "one episode").
Ser Patrek isn't responding to my e-mails, he stopped editing on December 7th, and now it says his account has been globally disabled. I don't think he was arguing with me or anyone else on here, though he has said he's had trouble with cyber-stalking in the past. Now I'm worried. He's changed his username before, so at the time I just hoped he was switching to something else. I'm not sure how else to contact or confirm what happened.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:37, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
First Season 6 trailer premieres this Sunday:
It may be time to enact the Hammerdown Protocol.
- Oh boy, the trailer! We have to be ready to fight back vandals and lock down whatever article is targeted. Any article that suffers more than three vandal attacks should be put under level 1 lockdown: prevent new users and anons.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:37, February 13, 2016 (UTC)
A lot of people I know have lost faith in the TV series after Season 5 was so badly condensed. It wasn't all bad, but Dorne and anything touching the North subplots had problems. Also the rushed plot holes of Jon's stabbing (dear god, are they even going to try to make that make sense?)
But I got renewed hope because: 1 - after fears of condensing down to only seven seasons resulted in rushed Season 5, HBO is now openly trying for eight seasons, meaning the speed of adaptation will slow down; 2 - Confirmation that the long delayed Greyjoy and Riverrun subplots will finally be back as a result.
I'm still worried they don't handle women well....apparently genderswapping Jonelle Cerwyn? Ack.
Bastards. It's starting to leak out 3 hours early, and word is that it truly is just a "tease" -- NO new footage! Then why make such a big deal about announcing it in advance?!--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:09, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
Infobox heraldry standards
We really need to drop what we're doing and work out standards for infobox heraldry. Ser Patrek worked on this before but with him gone, Ser Shield McShield and Xandaren have different views on what we should do.
I kept putting this off because I knew it would be time consuming, but they're pushing for it now and I can't make them wait any longer.
- As I've been trying to explain for the past few days, pretty much all the work on this project has been completed already... at my end at least. The main image shields that are currently uploaded all have the same shape. This was the main area that myself and SSmcS disagreed on. Not because he did didn't like the shape that I was using, he just thought it would save time to simply revert back to the original files, rather than upload new ones. However, as I had already created the new artwork this solution was.. distasteful to me, as I'm sure you can appreciate, as it meant that I would have wasted my time.
- The only thing left to decide is whether or not to use the small "Shield-Icon" files for the heraldry, or to use the same file as the main image. SSmcS thinks we should do the latter, but I was under the impression that the smaller shields were used for a reason? Anyway, that's really all there is to it. Xanderen (talk) 18:06, March 14, 2016 (UTC)
Hello, thank you for welcoming me to the wiki. I'd like to speak to you on the chat, if you have the time.
I'm licensed to chill 17:25, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
Someone moved "Castle Cerwyn" to "Cerwyn". What's the official status on that? I was for "Castle Cerwyn"...but House Hornwood doesn't hold "Hornwood Castle" or "Castle Hornwood", they just call it "Hornwood". Hasn't been used in dialogue before though it might next season.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:21, April 4, 2016 (UTC)
Major character heraldry changes
More extensive discussion taking place on Talk:Heraldry now that I'm catching up with it. Please check back there frequently (I'm still working on it).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:37, April 5, 2016 (UTC)
Please check out Talk:Timeline, I've heavily rewritten it into a 3 point breakdown of the major questions regarding the timeline.
The third point is the most important - exactly how fast time has been advancing on the TV series. With reasonably accuracy it's been established that Season 2 was 1 year after Season 1, and Season 4 was one year after Season 2, but how much time advanced in Seasons 4-6? Did the speed of adaptation slow down? If it did they didn't make it clear.
No rival timeline has been proposed, only a call for efforts to be abandoned.
These concerns are not without merit: the TV writers have done an awful job of keeping track of their own internal timeline.
There are three options: 1 - One TV season = one year (child actors age at a normal rate), 2- The writers consciously chose to slow down the pace of adaptation and just didn't make it clear to the audience, 3 - the TV writers are making no attempt to make an accurate timeline, will continue to contradict themselves on numerous points, and it is physically impossible to make a coherent timeline as a result.
Westeros.org to continue video reviews in Season 6
Elio and Linda were deeply rattled by the very condensed Season 5 finale, and pondered abandoning the show entirely.
However, as the months wore on, enough people voiced concerns to them that if they *didn't* stick around to review it, we wouldn't get mature criticial analysis of it anymore, but only the mindless hype machine that automatically likes everything (which makes the praise worthless - it only matters if the good comes with the bad).
"Some of the commentators have argued that its important to have a news/commentary source for the show that isn’t just eating up the hype and praising it no matter what."
So they've decided that Linda will continue to handle the episode by episode reviews in Season 6 -- to make sure things are still guided with a firm hand.
Funny thing happened, as I was pondering the wiki moving forward into Season 6. I wondered how many users are still contributing who were also here back in 2012, when we were still setting up basic stuff (I mean we had to create articles on "Meereen", "Slaver's Bay", etc. and had fun picking apart the new HBO Essos map when it came out). Season 2 was early 2012, then in the gap between Seasons 2 and 3, Septemberish 2012 - Februaryish 2013 was the Ch'Vyalthan crisis, that shut is down for a while. Or just the craziness in Season 2 of figuring out all of these new characters and places as the story drastically widened.
So I played around with the "User List" feature in the Admin toolbox. To check for: 1 - Non-Administrators, who 2 - joined up here since 2012, 3 - kept contributing through Season 5/2015, and 4 - have more than 300 edits or so. My logic on that last point being that anyone who amassed less than around 300 edits in four years was editing so infrequently that it was just sporadic visitation during the on-season.
So this list of people (other than current Admins) who even remember the Elder Days are: SagnamiFan, Mesmermann, TargaryenBlood, Carninator, JamesSawyerFord, GrouchMan, Draevan13.
Only seven people. I did a quick-check of anyone with over 100 edits (less thoroughly) but even that only adds another seven people: Mcc1789, Dr. Arzt, Gboy4, Frohas, Grouchman, Arthur88m, Orhan94.
Strange, thinking that these numbers are finite - the "number of people still active who have been here since 2012" will never increase. Wow.
Season 6 wiki ratings
I've been crunching the numbers for the wiki's own "ratings" - that "page visits" feature in the Admin toolbar; I try to keep a list of them in that forum thread.
Point is, I usually go by the day immediately after premiere night - after all it's at the end of the day, most people would be reading about it by the next day, which is when we finish our initial notes and writeup anyway, etc. Also because just looking at the numbers the post-day visits are the biggest spike:
For Season 5:
- April 12 - 1.1 million (premiere night)
- April 13 - 1.8 million
- April 14 - (missed)
- April 15 - 891.5 K
For Season 6:
- April 24 - 716.9 K (premiere night)
- April 25 - 1.7 million
- April 26 - 1.1 million
- April 27 - 813.6 K
On the whole, therefore, our ratings seem to be slightly down since Season 5, though holding reasonably steady. On the other hand - and I really wish I had the Season 5 April 14 number here - it seems that site visit patterns also shifted: slightly fewer on the immediate day-after, but generally more visits tapering off for a longer period of time over several days.
Generally I think - with some guesswork - that this generally reflects viewing patterns for the TV show itself:
- 1 - Some people have quite the show entirely due to drastic changes such as Sansa's storyline in Season 5 - I mean we saw the ratings dip that created (artificially improved later by "Hardhome", but the fact remains many people announced they quit).
- 2 - ....as we saw in other reports, DVR, delayed playback, and streaming services like HBO now mean that not necessarily everyone is watching the show live the night it airs, but delayed a bit over the next few days - generally matching that our numbers still seemed relatively high throughout the week.
I'm still a little worried that we're pulling in 100,000 less people than before - but the season has its ups and downs, we've seen that. Hard to judge from just one episode, need to see all 10 charted out to really get a feel for it.
Frankly, so long as we're regularly pulling in over one million visits on the immediate post-day spike, I think we're good - and we're still at 1.7 million.
I added two pictures... and I am proud of those two! I wish I had HBO (for those who aren't aware, I am a psychology student and I am basically broke lol) and could edit more freely. lol I hope you know, even if I am not around often, I LOVE this Wiki and I am here if you need anything, I will always stop in and check on things! I can always be a mediator lol. You guys are the best! QueenBuffy 05:26, April 30, 2016 (UTC)
Someone deleted my edit on season 6. I had inserted trivia part in that article, in which I wrote that season 6 finale might be the longest episode ever of GoT. You can see that here on the official site of HBO: http://www.hbo.com/search?type=schedule&focusId=787226
I'd also added that link in references.
It is written that episode 60 of GoT will be 69 minutes long. Maybe I'm wrong and this is not true, but this information still came from official HBO web site.
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language.
1 - A "hemisphere" is a half. I think you mean a "quadrant" or something (I'm not clear on what term would be used for a global quarter).
2 - ...you're short-changing yourself by claiming the "southwestern hemisphere": Columbia, Venezuella, Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana...all of these are north of Ecuador, and thus in the northwestern "hemisphere".
Just claim all of South America? Throw in Central America while you're at it, I don't know.
I'd say to just claim the entire southern hemisphere, but User:Lorisa214 is from Australia.
The Fan-made Dorne Patch Kickstarter project
This is hilarious:
In protest of how awfully mishandled the Dorne material was in Seasons 5 to 6, a group of fans (including one of the editors of the official trivia game) are launching their own satirical kickstarter to do a fan-made reshoot of all the scenes.
The goal is $20 million - and there's $10 million per episode this year - obviously they 1 - don't seriously think they'll reach such a goal, but 2 - the spirit of the Kickstarter project, the fact that it exists at all, is meant by them to be a protest of how badly handled Dorne was.
And we know fairly clearly why Dorne was bad in Season 5-6: DVD commentary admitted they never thought the show would actually go to Dorne, then added it at the last minute (I'm of the better late than never mentality but)...this resulted in rushed production, so it wasn't just "creative choices" or writing, but even terrible production (the woeful fight in episode 5.6 which was not only bad in and of itself, but meant to be climactic?) -- who the hell accepted the ridiculous constraints needed to film in the Alcazar? "Only film in the exteriors and don't film at night".
But the Sand Snakes themselves....they up front say what we all thought: they have no individual personalities, given that they barely talk. And the dialogue is absurdly beneath them -- seriously, I"ve heard "bad" dialogue from Benioff and Weiss before, this was something else - as if they were trying to make it weird.
But you know all this. It's just hilarious that they're putting effort into a kickstarter protest campaign.
Their idea is to make a "patch" - the Dorne scenes were so isolated from the rest of the TV series in Season 5 that the idea is you could just edit out the old scenes and then edit in these scenes.
If nothing else it's a fun thought experiment, and a raised middle finger at the failure of the TV-Dorne plot.
What upsets me more than anything isn't when Benioff and Weiss make creative decisions I disagree with....but when they make outright "mistakes" (Jaime/Cersei sex scene among them) like "badly produced fight scene and lazy dialogue", they'll just avoid talking about it, not taking responsibility for it (which is you know, what Peter Jackson did). Seriously I have mental flashes of the Oxford Union panel, "well, uh, we did that because we felt it was a thing he would do in that moment" or "Tyrion meeting Daenerys made sense to us because we wanted it to happen" (okay that last one I think was just a slip of the tongue, because there were other solid "reasons" such as "pacing and we thought it would be anticlimactic if they didn't meet before the break between seasons").
...I've been crunching the numbers: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:34889
Visits to Game of Thrones Wiki spiked after Jon Snow's resurrection - I honestly think a lot of people may have given up on the show thinking he would stay dead.
But that's not why I write.
The peaks each week are always the day after an episode airs, given that it's the first full 24 hour period (what, two hours in a day eastern time after each episode airs?). So I go by those peaks.
This week's page visits for episode 6.4 "Book of the Stranger", an episode in which there were no shocking main character deaths or giant controversial changes, were higher than our ratings for "Hardhome".
After "Hardhome", day-after wiki visits were 2.6 million.
"Book of the Stranger" day-after visits were 2.7 million.
So far this season we're:
- Episode 1 - 1.7 million
- Episode 2 - 2.2 million (Jon Snow returns)
- Episode 3 - 2.3 million
- Episode 4 - 2.7 million
In Season 5 we consistently pulled in day-after pageviews of 1 million, sometimes 1.4-1.5...also 2.1 after "Dance of Dragons", and of course 3.4 million for the Season 5 finale (but that's a finale, those are always big).
The wiki is now consistently pulling in TWICE as many pageviews as last season.
- Great news!.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:55, May 17, 2016 (UTC)
Dear god...after Hodor in episode 6.5 "The Door".
...post-episode 6.5 ratings were 4.8 million.
Our peak for the Season 4 finale was 3.2 million, and our peak for the Season 5 finale was 3.4 million.
This...this never happens. We're head and shoulders above our all time ratings peak, and it only the halfway point in the season.
Also, this was the first weak - since episode four was also strong - in which we actually maintained a stable rating of over 1 million page views for seven days in a row. Normally it dips back below one million by Wednesday to Friday. Wow.
The day long awaited has come: in-universe actors and theatrical plays in Braavos.
I checked and they totally avoid using the term "Mummers" for "Actors" in the show; that isn't a term that exists in the TV version (understandably it is kind of confusing to the casual viewer).
But this raises a question: we have articles on "Sellswords" and "Smallfolk" - we can't have an article on "Mummers", but how do we have an article on "Actors"....which is distinct from the out-of-universe TV actors?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:50, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
- I don't remember the term "smallfolk" ever being used yet we use it. Let's call them mummers.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:50, May 24, 2016 (UTC)
Favor - Please Delete Old Shield & Banner Files
Just nudging you to delete the old shield and banner files. Thanks!
Return of sorts
Hi. How are you? I wonder if I might have my admin rights restored please? I'm on paternity leave with our second baby and have some editing time! I'm keen to contribute with updates to thing like the latest episode template but find the protection prevents me from doing so. --Opark 77 (talk) 18:10, June 6, 2016 (UTC)
- Welcome back. I will consult your request it with my co-Bureaucrats/Triarchs TheDragonDemands and QueenBuffy.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:32, June 6, 2016 (UTC)
- After 14,000 edits, I didn't see no harm in making him admin again. We know he can be trusted. I did not give bureau. rights however. Sorry if I jumped the gun, I've just known Opark 77 awhile, also from True Blood Wiki. QueenBuffy 18:35, June 6, 2016 (UTC)
- Articles for episodes yet to be aired are locked to prevent spoilers and vandalism. They are unlocked after the episode airs.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:32, June 9, 2016 (UTC)
- Because the episode hasn't aired and We try to avoid "The" in titles.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 01:14, June 14, 2016 (UTC)
- Fair enough, but could it not have been moved to a different title? And will it be possible to retrieve the infobox after the episode has aired? I completely understand and accept your reasoning, but it's a shame if it's lost given the effort put into it. --CrappyScrap (talk) 01:35, June 14, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. I'm still trying to figure all of this out. BTW can you tell me how to add a character to the Characters category Page? (http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Characters)
Is there a video tutorial on uploading images so that I don't screw it up again?
I apologise for troubling you but I just wanted to raise something that might sound difficult. I notice that you and the other administrators seem to have a tough policy of blocking several anonymous users infinitely. I am aware that they have committed vandalism, spamming, and other unacceptable behaviour. I don't condone such actions. However, I am concerned it might sound pretty harsh because those are public accounts which get swapped around depending on the IP address. Perhaps, we could have a formal blocking policy guideline like what Wookieepdia has.
Let's say a maximum of three or six months for anonymous users as a suggestion? I occasionally edit here. Have been editing quite a lot with Season 6. Please don't take this criticism personally. I appreciate the hard work that you and the other admins have put into make this Wiki a credible online encyclopaedia for everything Game of Thrones. It is just a suggestion from an outsider. Perhaps, this is something you should discuss with the other administrators and the community. Please feel free to leave a message on my talk page. Andykatib 09:58, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
- I second this notion, whatever my agreement might mean. But I'd always prefer some sort of policy on that, anyways. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 11:20, June 21, 2016 (UTC) 11:17, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
Please made the changes of the Stark and Bolton Navbox to reflect the outcomes of the second battle of Winterfell, the Bolton Navbox still says that Winterfell is their seat, Thanks--Veracrux (talk) 20:55, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reminder!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:15, June 22, 2016 (UTC)
Request for update
You giving you a heads-up the Jman321 has changed Brynden Rivers to Bryden Targaryen even though he didn't use that name. I don't know how to switch it back. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:25, June 24, 2016 (UTC)