|Talk page archives|
TV continuity canon and dialogue errors
"Nameday" is the canon term, though actors have at times said "birthday" on-screen, these are assumed to merely be dialogue errors -- not confirmation that in-universe, "birthday" is a term they use.
Issue comes up on Talk:Rape: "Rapist" is not a term ever used in the novels (I don't think). Thus the one or two times that actors have said "Rapist" in the TV series are taken to be dialogue errors - not up for personal interpretation, but declared dialogue errors until proven otherwise. The fact that a writer and/or actor made an unintentional mistake in one or two episodes should not redefine what is canon and what is not.
- We can use "raper" and "rapist" as synonims for now.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:35, February 13, 2016 (UTC)
Infobox Shield policy
We're going to need to set more clear rules about the shields above infoboxes going forward - there were 3 or more at one point above Loras's to show changing allegiances. Sansa's was also a mess. Cleaned up more now - generally I think there should rarely if ever be more than two. Not sure - need to make sure other admins figure this out.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 07:19, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
It's going to be a long and laborious overhaul, but eventually we need to update the character categories. My original and too subjective idea was that "Starring" was an artifact of the TV production process, so Loras is still a "Major character" even if the actor isn't starring.
....then a while ago I realized this was all too subjective and editors would keep fighting over it, so we might as well just go by billing status: "Starring" for this starring actors, "Recurring" for anyone in more than one episode, and "Guest" for people who only appear in one episode (though this can be vague as "Lannister guard with no speaking lines #2" and "Maester Cressen" both appear in "one episode").
Ser Patrek isn't responding to my e-mails, he stopped editing on December 7th, and now it says his account has been globally disabled. I don't think he was arguing with me or anyone else on here, though he has said he's had trouble with cyber-stalking in the past. Now I'm worried. He's changed his username before, so at the time I just hoped he was switching to something else. I'm not sure how else to contact or confirm what happened.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 20:37, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
First Season 6 trailer premieres this Sunday:
It may be time to enact the Hammerdown Protocol.
- Oh boy, the trailer! We have to be ready to fight back vandals and lock down whatever article is targeted. Any article that suffers more than three vandal attacks should be put under level 1 lockdown: prevent new users and anons.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 07:37, February 13, 2016 (UTC)
A lot of people I know have lost faith in the TV series after Season 5 was so badly condensed. It wasn't all bad, but Dorne and anything touching the North subplots had problems. Also the rushed plot holes of Jon's stabbing (dear god, are they even going to try to make that make sense?)
But I got renewed hope because: 1 - after fears of condensing down to only seven seasons resulted in rushed Season 5, HBO is now openly trying for eight seasons, meaning the speed of adaptation will slow down; 2 - Confirmation that the long delayed Greyjoy and Riverrun subplots will finally be back as a result.
I'm still worried they don't handle women well....apparently genderswapping Jonelle Cerwyn? Ack.
Bastards. It's starting to leak out 3 hours early, and word is that it truly is just a "tease" -- NO new footage! Then why make such a big deal about announcing it in advance?!--The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:09, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
Infobox heraldry standards
We really need to drop what we're doing and work out standards for infobox heraldry. Ser Patrek worked on this before but with him gone, Ser Shield McShield and Xandaren have different views on what we should do.
I kept putting this off because I knew it would be time consuming, but they're pushing for it now and I can't make them wait any longer.
- As I've been trying to explain for the past few days, pretty much all the work on this project has been completed already... at my end at least. The main image shields that are currently uploaded all have the same shape. This was the main area that myself and SSmcS disagreed on. Not because he did didn't like the shape that I was using, he just thought it would save time to simply revert back to the original files, rather than upload new ones. However, as I had already created the new artwork this solution was.. distasteful to me, as I'm sure you can appreciate, as it meant that I would have wasted my time.
- The only thing left to decide is whether or not to use the small "Shield-Icon" files for the heraldry, or to use the same file as the main image. SSmcS thinks we should do the latter, but I was under the impression that the smaller shields were used for a reason? Anyway, that's really all there is to it. Xanderen (talk) 18:06, March 14, 2016 (UTC)
Hello, thank you for welcoming me to the wiki. I'd like to speak to you on the chat, if you have the time.
I'm licensed to chill 17:25, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
Someone moved "Castle Cerwyn" to "Cerwyn". What's the official status on that? I was for "Castle Cerwyn"...but House Hornwood doesn't hold "Hornwood Castle" or "Castle Hornwood", they just call it "Hornwood". Hasn't been used in dialogue before though it might next season.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:21, April 4, 2016 (UTC)
Major character heraldry changes
More extensive discussion taking place on Talk:Heraldry now that I'm catching up with it. Please check back there frequently (I'm still working on it).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:37, April 5, 2016 (UTC)
Please check out Talk:Timeline, I've heavily rewritten it into a 3 point breakdown of the major questions regarding the timeline.
The third point is the most important - exactly how fast time has been advancing on the TV series. With reasonably accuracy it's been established that Season 2 was 1 year after Season 1, and Season 4 was one year after Season 2, but how much time advanced in Seasons 4-6? Did the speed of adaptation slow down? If it did they didn't make it clear.
No rival timeline has been proposed, only a call for efforts to be abandoned.
These concerns are not without merit: the TV writers have done an awful job of keeping track of their own internal timeline.
There are three options: 1 - One TV season = one year (child actors age at a normal rate), 2- The writers consciously chose to slow down the pace of adaptation and just didn't make it clear to the audience, 3 - the TV writers are making no attempt to make an accurate timeline, will continue to contradict themselves on numerous points, and it is physically impossible to make a coherent timeline as a result.
Westeros.org to continue video reviews in Season 6
Elio and Linda were deeply rattled by the very condensed Season 5 finale, and pondered abandoning the show entirely.
However, as the months wore on, enough people voiced concerns to them that if they *didn't* stick around to review it, we wouldn't get mature criticial analysis of it anymore, but only the mindless hype machine that automatically likes everything (which makes the praise worthless - it only matters if the good comes with the bad).
"Some of the commentators have argued that its important to have a news/commentary source for the show that isn’t just eating up the hype and praising it no matter what."
So they've decided that Linda will continue to handle the episode by episode reviews in Season 6 -- to make sure things are still guided with a firm hand.
Funny thing happened, as I was pondering the wiki moving forward into Season 6. I wondered how many users are still contributing who were also here back in 2012, when we were still setting up basic stuff (I mean we had to create articles on "Meereen", "Slaver's Bay", etc. and had fun picking apart the new HBO Essos map when it came out). Season 2 was early 2012, then in the gap between Seasons 2 and 3, Septemberish 2012 - Februaryish 2013 was the Ch'Vyalthan crisis, that shut is down for a while. Or just the craziness in Season 2 of figuring out all of these new characters and places as the story drastically widened.
So I played around with the "User List" feature in the Admin toolbox. To check for: 1 - Non-Administrators, who 2 - joined up here since 2012, 3 - kept contributing through Season 5/2015, and 4 - have more than 300 edits or so. My logic on that last point being that anyone who amassed less than around 300 edits in four years was editing so infrequently that it was just sporadic visitation during the on-season.
So this list of people (other than current Admins) who even remember the Elder Days are: SagnamiFan, Mesmermann, TargaryenBlood, Carninator, JamesSawyerFord, GrouchMan, Draevan13.
Only seven people. I did a quick-check of anyone with over 100 edits (less thoroughly) but even that only adds another seven people: Mcc1789, Dr. Arzt, Gboy4, Frohas, Grouchman, Arthur88m, Orhan94.
Strange, thinking that these numbers are finite - the "number of people still active who have been here since 2012" will never increase. Wow.
Season 6 wiki ratings
I've been crunching the numbers for the wiki's own "ratings" - that "page visits" feature in the Admin toolbar; I try to keep a list of them in that forum thread.
Point is, I usually go by the day immediately after premiere night - after all it's at the end of the day, most people would be reading about it by the next day, which is when we finish our initial notes and writeup anyway, etc. Also because just looking at the numbers the post-day visits are the biggest spike:
For Season 5:
- April 12 - 1.1 million (premiere night)
- April 13 - 1.8 million
- April 14 - (missed)
- April 15 - 891.5 K
For Season 6:
- April 24 - 716.9 K (premiere night)
- April 25 - 1.7 million
- April 26 - 1.1 million
- April 27 - 813.6 K
On the whole, therefore, our ratings seem to be slightly down since Season 5, though holding reasonably steady. On the other hand - and I really wish I had the Season 5 April 14 number here - it seems that site visit patterns also shifted: slightly fewer on the immediate day-after, but generally more visits tapering off for a longer period of time over several days.
Generally I think - with some guesswork - that this generally reflects viewing patterns for the TV show itself:
- 1 - Some people have quite the show entirely due to drastic changes such as Sansa's storyline in Season 5 - I mean we saw the ratings dip that created (artificially improved later by "Hardhome", but the fact remains many people announced they quit).
- 2 - ....as we saw in other reports, DVR, delayed playback, and streaming services like HBO now mean that not necessarily everyone is watching the show live the night it airs, but delayed a bit over the next few days - generally matching that our numbers still seemed relatively high throughout the week.
I'm still a little worried that we're pulling in 100,000 less people than before - but the season has its ups and downs, we've seen that. Hard to judge from just one episode, need to see all 10 charted out to really get a feel for it.
Frankly, so long as we're regularly pulling in over one million visits on the immediate post-day spike, I think we're good - and we're still at 1.7 million.
I added two pictures... and I am proud of those two! I wish I had HBO (for those who aren't aware, I am a psychology student and I am basically broke lol) and could edit more freely. lol I hope you know, even if I am not around often, I LOVE this Wiki and I am here if you need anything, I will always stop in and check on things! I can always be a mediator lol. You guys are the best! QueenBuffy 05:26, April 30, 2016 (UTC)
Someone deleted my edit on season 6. I had inserted trivia part in that article, in which I wrote that season 6 finale might be the longest episode ever of GoT. You can see that here on the official site of HBO: http://www.hbo.com/search?type=schedule&focusId=787226
I'd also added that link in references.
It is written that episode 60 of GoT will be 69 minutes long. Maybe I'm wrong and this is not true, but this information still came from official HBO web site.
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language.
1 - A "hemisphere" is a half. I think you mean a "quadrant" or something (I'm not clear on what term would be used for a global quarter).
2 - ...you're short-changing yourself by claiming the "southwestern hemisphere": Columbia, Venezuella, Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana...all of these are north of Ecuador, and thus in the northwestern "hemisphere".
Just claim all of South America? Throw in Central America while you're at it, I don't know.
I'd say to just claim the entire southern hemisphere, but User:Lorisa214 is from Australia.
The Fan-made Dorne Patch Kickstarter project
This is hilarious:
In protest of how awfully mishandled the Dorne material was in Seasons 5 to 6, a group of fans (including one of the editors of the official trivia game) are launching their own satirical kickstarter to do a fan-made reshoot of all the scenes.
The goal is $20 million - and there's $10 million per episode this year - obviously they 1 - don't seriously think they'll reach such a goal, but 2 - the spirit of the Kickstarter project, the fact that it exists at all, is meant by them to be a protest of how badly handled Dorne was.
And we know fairly clearly why Dorne was bad in Season 5-6: DVD commentary admitted they never thought the show would actually go to Dorne, then added it at the last minute (I'm of the better late than never mentality but)...this resulted in rushed production, so it wasn't just "creative choices" or writing, but even terrible production (the woeful fight in episode 5.6 which was not only bad in and of itself, but meant to be climactic?) -- who the hell accepted the ridiculous constraints needed to film in the Alcazar? "Only film in the exteriors and don't film at night".
But the Sand Snakes themselves....they up front say what we all thought: they have no individual personalities, given that they barely talk. And the dialogue is absurdly beneath them -- seriously, I"ve heard "bad" dialogue from Benioff and Weiss before, this was something else - as if they were trying to make it weird.
But you know all this. It's just hilarious that they're putting effort into a kickstarter protest campaign.
Their idea is to make a "patch" - the Dorne scenes were so isolated from the rest of the TV series in Season 5 that the idea is you could just edit out the old scenes and then edit in these scenes.
If nothing else it's a fun thought experiment, and a raised middle finger at the failure of the TV-Dorne plot.
What upsets me more than anything isn't when Benioff and Weiss make creative decisions I disagree with....but when they make outright "mistakes" (Jaime/Cersei sex scene among them) like "badly produced fight scene and lazy dialogue", they'll just avoid talking about it, not taking responsibility for it (which is you know, what Peter Jackson did). Seriously I have mental flashes of the Oxford Union panel, "well, uh, we did that because we felt it was a thing he would do in that moment" or "Tyrion meeting Daenerys made sense to us because we wanted it to happen" (okay that last one I think was just a slip of the tongue, because there were other solid "reasons" such as "pacing and we thought it would be anticlimactic if they didn't meet before the break between seasons").
...I've been crunching the numbers: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:34889
Visits to Game of Thrones Wiki spiked after Jon Snow's resurrection - I honestly think a lot of people may have given up on the show thinking he would stay dead.
But that's not why I write.
The peaks each week are always the day after an episode airs, given that it's the first full 24 hour period (what, two hours in a day eastern time after each episode airs?). So I go by those peaks.
This week's page visits for episode 6.4 "Book of the Stranger", an episode in which there were no shocking main character deaths or giant controversial changes, were higher than our ratings for "Hardhome".
After "Hardhome", day-after wiki visits were 2.6 million.
"Book of the Stranger" day-after visits were 2.7 million.
So far this season we're:
- Episode 1 - 1.7 million
- Episode 2 - 2.2 million (Jon Snow returns)
- Episode 3 - 2.3 million
- Episode 4 - 2.7 million
In Season 5 we consistently pulled in day-after pageviews of 1 million, sometimes 1.4-1.5...also 2.1 after "Dance of Dragons", and of course 3.4 million for the Season 5 finale (but that's a finale, those are always big).
The wiki is now consistently pulling in TWICE as many pageviews as last season.
- Great news!.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:55, May 17, 2016 (UTC)
Dear god...after Hodor in episode 6.5 "The Door".
...post-episode 6.5 ratings were 4.8 million.
Our peak for the Season 4 finale was 3.2 million, and our peak for the Season 5 finale was 3.4 million.
This...this never happens. We're head and shoulders above our all time ratings peak, and it only the halfway point in the season.
Also, this was the first weak - since episode four was also strong - in which we actually maintained a stable rating of over 1 million page views for seven days in a row. Normally it dips back below one million by Wednesday to Friday. Wow.
The day long awaited has come: in-universe actors and theatrical plays in Braavos.
I checked and they totally avoid using the term "Mummers" for "Actors" in the show; that isn't a term that exists in the TV version (understandably it is kind of confusing to the casual viewer).
But this raises a question: we have articles on "Sellswords" and "Smallfolk" - we can't have an article on "Mummers", but how do we have an article on "Actors"....which is distinct from the out-of-universe TV actors?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:50, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
- I don't remember the term "smallfolk" ever being used yet we use it. Let's call them mummers.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:50, May 24, 2016 (UTC)
Favor - Please Delete Old Shield & Banner Files
Just nudging you to delete the old shield and banner files. Thanks!
Return of sorts
Hi. How are you? I wonder if I might have my admin rights restored please? I'm on paternity leave with our second baby and have some editing time! I'm keen to contribute with updates to thing like the latest episode template but find the protection prevents me from doing so. --Opark 77 (talk) 18:10, June 6, 2016 (UTC)
- Welcome back. I will consult your request it with my co-Bureaucrats/Triarchs TheDragonDemands and QueenBuffy.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:32, June 6, 2016 (UTC)
- After 14,000 edits, I didn't see no harm in making him admin again. We know he can be trusted. I did not give bureau. rights however. Sorry if I jumped the gun, I've just known Opark 77 awhile, also from True Blood Wiki. QueenBuffy 18:35, June 6, 2016 (UTC)
- Articles for episodes yet to be aired are locked to prevent spoilers and vandalism. They are unlocked after the episode airs.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:32, June 9, 2016 (UTC)
- Because the episode hasn't aired and We try to avoid "The" in titles.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 01:14, June 14, 2016 (UTC)
- Fair enough, but could it not have been moved to a different title? And will it be possible to retrieve the infobox after the episode has aired? I completely understand and accept your reasoning, but it's a shame if it's lost given the effort put into it. --CrappyScrap (talk) 01:35, June 14, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. I'm still trying to figure all of this out. BTW can you tell me how to add a character to the Characters category Page? (http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Characters)
Is there a video tutorial on uploading images so that I don't screw it up again?
I apologise for troubling you but I just wanted to raise something that might sound difficult. I notice that you and the other administrators seem to have a tough policy of blocking several anonymous users infinitely. I am aware that they have committed vandalism, spamming, and other unacceptable behaviour. I don't condone such actions. However, I am concerned it might sound pretty harsh because those are public accounts which get swapped around depending on the IP address. Perhaps, we could have a formal blocking policy guideline like what Wookieepdia has.
Let's say a maximum of three or six months for anonymous users as a suggestion? I occasionally edit here. Have been editing quite a lot with Season 6. Please don't take this criticism personally. I appreciate the hard work that you and the other admins have put into make this Wiki a credible online encyclopaedia for everything Game of Thrones. It is just a suggestion from an outsider. Perhaps, this is something you should discuss with the other administrators and the community. Please feel free to leave a message on my talk page. Andykatib 09:58, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
- I second this notion, whatever my agreement might mean. But I'd always prefer some sort of policy on that, anyways. AllHailTheFirstOrder (talk) 11:20, June 21, 2016 (UTC) 11:17, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
Please made the changes of the Stark and Bolton Navbox to reflect the outcomes of the second battle of Winterfell, the Bolton Navbox still says that Winterfell is their seat, Thanks--Veracrux (talk) 20:55, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reminder!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:15, June 22, 2016 (UTC)
Request for update
You giving you a heads-up the Jman321 has changed Brynden Rivers to Bryden Targaryen even though he didn't use that name. I don't know how to switch it back. Ser Shield McShield (talk) 18:25, June 24, 2016 (UTC)
Are you going to do anything?
- I'm not your employee for you talk to me that way. You are blocked for two hours.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 06:11, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
- I've noticed every time that user speaks to me, it is in a harsh way also. QueenBuffy 23:09, June 28, 2016 (UTC)
- He's pervasively berated me for not unlocking pages which in all honesty I forgot were locked - and yes that was my fault, but he complains on the first request, while threatening to complain to Wikia Community. I just needed to be reminded. And a lot of people don't NOTICE the massive spoiler edits some people were trying to make....specifically because we locked them, after episode leaks, to protect everyone.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:01, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
I opened it for about 15 minutes while I was on, but then locked it up again. You may want to do the same, it's up to you... there is just so many people wanting to add stuff that shouldn't be added...you'll have to keep an eye on it. I went ahead and allowed his father "Rhaegar - speculated" in his infobox, since it is obvious Ned isn't now. I just don't want too much of it coming off as a spoiler, like changing his last name to Targaryen, etc. lol. I'm sure you'd agree. QueenBuffy 04:01, June 28, 2016 (UTC)
- Indeed. Then again, even if he's revealed as Rhaegar's trueborn son he was named Jon Snow so that should be his name (like Joffrey being "Baratheon" and not Lannister or Waters or Hill).--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:06, June 28, 2016 (UTC)
Not quite, he was names "Jon". His "Snow" last name comes from his "disguise" as a bastard that Ned gave him. If he indeed is Rhaegar trueborn son his name is obviously Jon Targaryen - when you are born you don't pick your last name. Jon Snow is an assumes identity much like "Alayne Stone" if the theory is true.
- Actually, as far as we know his "legal" name is Jon Snow, not an alias like Alayne Stone or the dozen identities assumed by Arya. Just like Joffrey is "Joffrey Baratheon" and not "Joffrey Lannister" because he was legally named as such, regardless of his purely Lannister blood.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 23:12, June 28, 2016 (UTC)
Hi Gonzalo! I left a message on the Bronn talk page! Would you be able to help out?
Season 6 finale ratings
....I was stunned when we reached a new peak after the Hodor reveal in "The Door", at 4.8 million. Afterwards I delusionally said we might reach a 7 million peak after the season finale at this rate.
Day-after Season 6 finale wiki site visit count was 9.1 million.
- We are not in danger, Dragon, we are the danger.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:02, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
Unlock House Lannister
Do you mind unlocking the page for House Lannister? From the finale, it needs to be updated, especially considering that it's now been elevated to the status of royal house. Thanks! Reddyredcp (talk) 05:21, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
Lannister cadet page justification
I respect the fact that you deleted my article because it was not official that there was a new House Lannister cadet. However, I do believe that its existence is justified. I and other users were working on the definition of a cadet branch ("A cadet branch is a noble House that descends from another noble House. They are usually created when a younger member of a noble House, who is not the current heir of the family seat, is granted lands and titles of his own.") and also on the tradition of the Baratheon line being separated. For all we know, Jaime is Lord of Casterly Rock, not Cersei. Anyway, this is just to explain it. Patrek Stark (talk) 05:45, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
- For the gazillionth time, Jaime is not the Lord of Casterly Rock just because someone called him "my lord" (it is just a show of respect. There is no such thing as "my ser". Brienne is called "my lady" by Podrick and she's not lady of anything - except maybe part of Jaime's heart).--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:50, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
Talk:King in the North
Taking a break
I'm sorry, but I'm just too aggravated with the wiki right now. Too many people hounding me, things I don't agree with are happening and I think it's best I just step aside for awhile. On top of being diagnosed with my liver disease, I was also recently diagnosed with an incurable autoimmune disease... I'm living in hell right now health wise and this wiki does nothing to help me...if anything it only makes things worse. Best of luck. QueenBuffy 13:52, June 29, 2016 (UTC)
I was just looking over some of Ser Shield McShield's work, and even though he's been here a short time, he seems very competent. What would you think about asking him if he'd be interested in being admin? Maybe ask if he's been Admin before on another wiki? Do we need another admin? Don't we only have 3 of us active right now? QueenBuffy 03:35, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
- Saw where The Dragon Demands is for it. QueenBuffy 20:03, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, I agree he should be made admin
I expect to come under fire from this, but as we talked about keeping original and full character names on Dragon's page, and you also agreed, I am of the firm opinion to rename Hodor's page to Wylis, as that is his original name which he never intended to change. Thoughts? Best --EchoesOfTheTower (talk) 15:48, July 2, 2016 (UTC)
"characters who drop their surname when they join a monastic order" is not the same thing as "characters known by an entirely different name" (Hodor, Jon Snow), or "how we chose to differentiate characters with exactly the same name in dynasties (Targaryens and Starks).
There is a small debate about the page name for Sansa Stark. I think an admin's input could help settle matters.
Lord of House Stark, Vote Turnout
There's been an (ongoing) edit war over the lord/head of House Stark, with Jon being King in the North, people are listing Jon Snow as the lord. Instead of keeping the edit war going, as you know, I created a discussion thread and a poll. 115 users voted on the poll, so far. The majority vote of the poll is "Sansa Stark (official), Bran Stark (rightful)" for lord of House Stark.
I petition the admins concerned and involved, to adjust the lord section of House Stark according to the majority vote of the poll. The poll was founded on canon knowledge of the show, and based on the edit war it's an important subject to users. Whatever decision may come of this, I ask that the page stay locked for at least 3 days. Thank you. Sorry for this drama, have a good day. --Kai200995 (talk) 13:28, July 4, 2016 (UTC)
Can you go to TDD's talk page and look at the question I asked him about Jon and the Night's Watch sigil above his infobox? I need your input. QueenBuffy 18:00, July 4, 2016 (UTC)
hey I received your message about the Edit of Jon Snow's page. Does it mean that I am not allowed to insert a youtube video in my comment?
Thanks for changing that. I wasn't in the mood for a debate. haha QueenBuffy 00:39, July 5, 2016 (UTC)
Jon Snow family tree
Can you unlock Familytree/Jon Snow so I can update the shield icon.
(AshBell 02:20, July 5, 2016 (UTC))
- Please don't forget to add a subject to new messages. We keep family tree templates locked.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:56, July 5, 2016 (UTC)
Article names: Bran Stark and Hodor
This issue was settled years past and we chose to follow the example of A Wiki of Ice and Fire, one of our models, and to simplify some articles for the sake of disambiguation. There are several Brandon Starks, unlike Eddison Tollett or Eddard Stark. We chose to keep it in "Bran Stark". In Hodor's case, basically his name was changed.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:47, July 5, 2016 (UTC)
Aargh, this is so damn stupid! How the hell is this wiki set up? And that Hodor thing too! His goddamn name is WYLIS! WYLIS! Just have it your way. I refuse to waste my time in trying to improve a place and make it consistent and professional when its own admins don't give one.-- 21:02, July 5, 2016 (UTC)
- We've managed for several years. We may not be as "consistent and professional" as you want but at least we don't forget to use headlines for writing in talk pages.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:20, July 5, 2016 (UTC)
- That was his birth name shown in a couple of episodes, his character name throughout the ENTIRE SERIES was HODOR! He is HODOR. THIS NEEDS TO END NOW! I hate raising my voice and I am trying to remain "cool and calm", but this argument ends NOW. No more talk about how ignorant and incompetent we are. I have been an admin here for 5 years, and I'm telling you, rabble-rousers /do/ get blocked eventually. We have to work as a team. If you don't agree with something, then move on. Out of the millions who stop by, you and apparently a handful of people are the only ones with the problem, though I think it is mainly YOUR problem. Trouble makers don't last long here. Again, not a threat, a warning.. as I've said, I've been here many years, and we have admins who have no issue in blocking others. PLease please please, just pick and choose your battles. Wylis and Hodor isn't one of them... nor is Brandon Stark vs. Bran Stark. Put yourself in our shoes.. things were going smoothly before you started on this page renaming kick. While we are so busy, and don't have time to argue about such things; page titles.. page images.. etc. Please just edit where we need the help. There are many things to do here, besides bicker over character names. Just a last minute thought...on our job applications in the States, it has a place for you name, then a place for "What do you go by". It's kind of like this. He was born Wylis but goes by Hodor. I wish I could make you see.QueenBuffy 17:21, July 6, 2016 (UTC)
Gregor Clegane picture
The reason why we think the Season 4 pic should be there is because it is a clear shot of his face. We can't see his eyes under there, and dead or alive he isn't the same Gregor we knew in Seasons 1, 2, and 4. We could always do a separate page for his zombie self... but some don't believe he's really a zombie.
If you think there should be a recent picture, we should put a tab up there with his human form and then his zombie form. If we can't confirm he is a zombie, then "Transformed" should be the name of the tab. KillRoy231 (talk) 01:26, July 6, 2016 (UTC)
I agree. When I implemented the changed it was undone again and then all three admins shut that argument down almost immediately. Killroy's points have a lot of merit however.-- 02:02, July 6, 2016 (UTC)
Tabs showing progression over time are a good idea.
Until they are implemented, the most recent season picture should be shown.
- The whole point of the character ever since he's given to Qyburn is that he's "faceless", that no-one save for Qyburn know what hides beneath the helm, only his blood-filled eyes and bits of pale skin hinting at what he's become until "The Winds of Winter". If he's a zombie or not is besides the point, he still has changed. A separate article for his "zombie self"? There is absolutely no point for that any more than making separate articles for Wight Karsi. Tabs I would agree only if they were implemented for every character and showed a picture of each season to show how they age, how they evolve from one season to the next.
If the whole issue is "you can't see his face" then use a screenshot of "The Winds of Winter" after he removes his helm.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 19:31, July 6, 2016 (UTC)
Another user who forgets to make use headlines
Hi, i started a thread called "prequel series for game of thrones"as an anonymous user before i registered and don't know how to delete it. I have started a similar thread undet my user name
(Lovers/Parnters) section in infobox
How hard would that be to make? So many people want to be lovers in the family section and should really be in "significant othters" or "lovers" or something. Thoughts? QueenBuffy 00:22, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
I'd go with a "lovers" section. No betrothed or signficiant others though because we'll get shippers fanwanking over Arya/Gendry.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:40, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
- I think it should go right under family. Which of us normally does that? haha QueenBuffy 02:21, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
- I'll do it ;) --Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:24, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
- Lovers are not family. And I already added the tag to the character infobox.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:01, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
There was so much emphasis on that tower, I assumed it was the citadel lol QueenBuffy 05:12, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
Laws and Customs
Wait, we're renaming "Laws and Customs" to "Laws of the Seven Kingdoms"? (Shouldn't it at least be "Laws and Customs of the Seven Kingdoms?"). I think I made a mess of the redirects now, ack, this needs attention.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 05:14, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
- I agree, Laws and Customs of the Seven Kingdoms is a good title.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:28, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
Just noticed this person. Keep an eye on them, as I have this feeling it could be a sock pocket of "you know who". Even the image in the infobox seems odd to me, and fake. HERE. Thoughts? 01:22, July 10, 2016 (UTC)
Oops lmao. Obviously you see where I could get "too fat to sit on a horse" mixed up with vandalism. hahaha QueenBuffy 17:16, July 10, 2016 (UTC)
Just had an idea. What about making a category for pages that says "Image needs brightening"? I am going through so many, but I'd have a lot of help if people could add that category for me. That way I can brighten (or someone else can), the images so they are better seen. This could be infobox or images in the synopsis.. we'd be able to tell which it is. What do you think? Thanks. QueenBuffy 23:27, July 10, 2016 (UTC)
So again, I just add BrighterImageNeeded with brackets, like a STUB tag would be? QueenBuffy 23:44, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
Exactly.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 23:59, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
- Great I will go thru and start adding it tonight. How do I find the ones tagged? With categories I can just search "Category: ImageNeedsBrightening", but I'm not sure how to find stub articles. I'm sure it's something simple. QueenBuffy 00:16, July 12, 2016 (UTC)
The Category name is "Brighter image needed"
I think it may be easier for me to just do this as a category, like the 'Image needed" category... It may be faster right? Rather than opening each image, adding the template, then saving? QueenBuffy 02:21, July 12, 2016 (UTC)
- OH! So it is a category then? Brighter image needed. Man I make things more difficult than needed huh haha QueenBuffy 02:23, July 12, 2016 (UTC)
- That's 150px x 150px. It should be 100px x 90px.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 18:01, July 12, 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, try that ;) QueenBuffy 18:12, July 12, 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, they should be 100x100 but we already have dozens of 100x90 so it would be impractical to redo every single image.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 14:34, July 13, 2016 (UTC)
Quotes of ur favorite contributors
So that's how you think people should contribute here. Well, that's obviously all we need to know about this Wiki. 220.127.116.11 15:43, July 13, 2016 (UTC)
Ok first of all what I said there and then was on the talk page and it was over 2 weeks ago when HBO didnt yet confirm that on their website or VG also that was like my only message on that page and I don't understand why you waited like 2 weeks to reprimand me for my language when clearly there were users on that page who were more hostile than me!!
Second I removed messages from my talk page because its my personal space and I believe its up to users rights what is and what isnt displayed on his/her personal page.
Third I had no idea that you were an admin as it does say that on your profile header it only says "Knight" and my thoughts were that such badge is earned by having over 1000 edits or so...
Fourth for what exactly did I receive 2 warnings that you left on my page? Please clarify because I'm at a loss here.
Finally I have reputation to protect, I've contributed a lot to this wikia aince Season 6 finale including adding plot if what happened in the North, and at the Twins in "The Winds of Winter" episode when Plot was still empty. Ramsay 20:16, July 13, 2016 (UTC)
By definition, joining this wiki only two weeks ago and the amount of edits one could physically contribute in that time period means you do not yet have a sizable "reputation".
You are forbidden from removing Admin comments on your Talk page, for at least a reasonable period of some weeks or months, or if the issue gets resolved.
Okay I apologize for removing admin messages from my talk page I didn't realize there was such a rule, nor did I knew that Gonzalo84 was an admin.
Furthermore I joined in May actually I just wasn't so active in editing on this wikia since Season 6 finale and by reputation I meant my personal rep not the Wiki rep. Sorry if that caused confusion. Ramsay 05:01, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
I'm glad that the admins did apologize. You can clearly see how other people were more hostile becuase it was his first contribution on each page. 18.104.22.168 14:33, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
Brightening images update
Just a quick upate to let you know: This is turning out good... I'm just accumulating a lot of them and will get started on them. I am also going through each actor and updating their images... mainly ones that are 5+ years are older. QueenBuffy 21:52, July 13, 2016 (UTC)
- Amazing job!!!!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:02, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. Funny how addicting this editing stuff can get! haha. Guess it's one reason I've been around since 2011. :) QueenBuffy 00:09, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
Will do. :) QueenBuffy 02:32, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
- Done! :) Let me know of any others you see that need to be updated. QueenBuffy 02:55, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
- Hmmm, not sure if I can find that exact image, but I will find a good one of her from S6. I will also update Tywin and Kevan. If you start seeing some that need changing, just jot them down and later send me a list. QueenBuffy 03:22, July 14, 2016 (UTC)
Faith Militant Head
It was already kinda weird shaded, but I will go back and start over. These images are SO dark, they will NEVER look 100% perfect, they just won't. So it's like.. we have to choose.. do we see complete darkness.. or can we make them lighter so we can at least see them and just have deal with quality being slightly less than perfect. Trust me, if I make it lighter, and it looks crappy, I would and will rather keep it dark...which I have done several times. I use good disgresion, don't worry. QueenBuffy 01:08, July 15, 2016 (UTC)
- That looks better.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 01:50, July 15, 2016 (UTC)
I've been doing so much work, plus late night work, I barely remember that article or it's wonikiness. haha. I can't believe IMDB actually jacked some of our work. Thanks for catching my error. QueenBuffy 03:08, July 15, 2016 (UTC)
- That image is from Beautiful Death, an official HBO site that features one official artwork based on a major (or the single) death of each episode.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 04:32, July 15, 2016 (UTC)
- Strange, not sure how I missed that. It first looked fan made to me, like Tumblr or something... so had to ask. haha QueenBuffy 04:53, July 15, 2016 (UTC
I understand that. There are a lot I won't touch, BUT there are some that are just basically BLACK and really pointless as images. I'll have to use my judgement I guess. I just want things around here easy to read and see... doing my best/part to clean up things. QueenBuffy 05:23, July 15, 2016 (UTC)
- I trust your judgement :) --Gonzalo84 (talk) 05:26, July 15, 2016 (UTC)
- It's mainly going to be used for like secondary charries.. like those Bolton soldiers and stuff. Anything that is just TOO dark, and obvious screencap. :)QueenBuffy 05:29, July 15, 2016 (UTC)
Category for LGBT?
I'm not sure if this is the right place to do this and if it is not, please direct me to where I'm supposed to go. But should there be a category for LGBT?
- Considering the setting I'm not quite sure.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:33, July 16, 2016 (UTC)
- I personally don't think it is needed and would only alienate the LGBT community. It's not pertinent information for a character. QueenBuffy 02:49, July 16, 2016 (UTC)
...at most, Maybe "Characters Who Have Had Same-Sex Relationships" or something. But not really. We...we would literally be imposing modern "categories" onto a medieval society which they don't actually use.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:57, July 16, 2016 (UTC)
Agreed. Like I said, doesn't seem all that pertinent. QueenBuffy 03:05, July 16, 2016 (UTC)
Tyrell infoboxes. I can most definitely spruce them up with better images. I wasn't too fond of the ones we have now. I will have to protect those pages for a few days after though.. just so they aren't changed back.
As far as the family tree- Man, do I agree. Is a great-great-great-cousin on my daddy's side all THAT important? haha QueenBuffy 23:03, July 17, 2016 (UTC)
"Children" :) QueenBuffy 23:15, July 17, 2016 (UTC)
Family in infobox
....there are a few cousin relationships such as Cersei-Lancel which may be important but....
- Third one!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:31, July 18, 2016 (UTC)
3rd one down, ok :) What about out of THESE HERE? and then there ARE THESE.. forget the last two, those accidentally got snuck in there. They were from Loras' first trial. If you don't like any of them, let me know... they look blurry a little, but they aren't in actuality. QueenBuffy 05:08, July 18, 2016 (UTC)
- From Loras the last one would look fine, even though its not "current". With Olenna I'd go with the last one.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 17:06, July 18, 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah the ones of Loras aren't too new. I do like the very last shot of him with Margaery, but his head is so bloody not sure how people would react. Other than that... there aren't many good ones of him from Season 6. :( QueenBuffy 20:40, July 18, 2016 (UTC)
- And one from before he gets the scar? --Gonzalo84 (talk) 03:27, July 19, 2016 (UTC)
- Isn't his head like pulled back though? QueenBuffy 16:00, July 19, 2016 (UTC)
Infobox color scheme
- I don't know what happened. I did nothing to the template.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:00, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
I will check them out :) QueenBuffy 00:13, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
- I looked them up in both episodes... to try and screencap.. both look like disaster. I think this is the best we're going to get so far :( QueenBuffy 01:11, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
I thought that Dragon meant brackets were okay any time bullets were used when he reverted some edits I had made. I apologize again for misunderstanding how certain things are done around here. Shaneymike (talk) 03:07, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
I have a better understanding now but from here on out I shall refrain from adding brackets to denote deceaesed characters and focus more on simplifying references. Shaneymike (talk) 03:26, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
I deleted those comments because I realized I overreacted and had decided the whole thing wasn't something I wanted to get into. I thought by getting rid of the comments that this could have been avoided.
I didn't tuck tail and run because I was afraid I'd lose my editing privileges, because I wasn't. I don't devote the amount of time you do to this Wikia community and I doubt I ever will.
This is not an apology; you're a condescending egomaniac and I'm not the least bit sorry or repentant for any offense I've given. I'm just stating the facts as they are. Beyond that, I owe you nothing.
22.214.171.124 23:13, August 4, 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for making you do that. Even though I don't like Eko's attitude, my main reason for the back and forth was that I strongly disagreed with his logic as to why Jon did nothing to retake Winterfell.--Shaneymike (talk) 17:40, August 5, 2016 (UTC)
This has not ended. Check out Eko's latest request on QueenBuffy's page: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:QueenBuffy#Request
My two cents - I have run into similar illogical conclusions made by Eko. At first, I thought English might not be Eko's first language since he kept using words not quite in their correct way and so his conclusions were illogical - but I didn't know if he really meant the conclusion as written or he just couldn't write clearly. But now I think he just makes illogical conclusions. He doesn't seem to have any intent to make wrong conclusions but he keeps making conclusions that no one else seems to agree with and then tries to enforce his views with edit wars.
Gonzalo - Please handle the end-run Eko is attempting to do with QueenBuffy as you see fit.
What are you talking about? Please clarify User:Ser Shield McShield. Thank you and I'll wait for your reply Ramsay 18:25, August 5, 2016 (UTC)
About brightening images
I have recently added this to our image policy:
- Dark images need to be categorized with "Image (Brighter image needed)", yet ONLY admin's have the rights to actually brighten the image itself.
Just wanted to give you a heads up, if you see just any user trying to edit the images and tweak them. It could easily get out of hand. There is one user that has helped me and has done a good job. I will give her the opportunity to continue, since I've seen her work and trust her. Anyway, just wanted to past this on. QueenBuffy 21:19, August 7, 2016 (UTC)
Just noticing Tystane's and Mycerlla's... I can't put a "lover" section? Has that been removed now? If so, I think that will make a world of trouble. Arguments, etc. QueenBuffy 19:54, August 8, 2016 (UTC)
- I haven't removed the "Lovers" section. There's been a little edit war (edit skirmish so far) at Trystane's article. An anon is placing Myrcella as Trystane's lover (even though we don't know if they ever become actual lovers - re: having sex) and IAMTHEBIGGESTFAN as is placing Myrcella as "spouse".--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:12, August 8, 2016 (UTC)
- So no more "lovers" section? :( I think we need one. It's basically like "Significant other". QueenBuffy 19:54, August 9, 2016 (UTC)
- The "Lovers" section remains. Just not for Trystane and Myrcella because they don't qualify.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:10, August 9, 2016 (UTC)
- Awww, but they were totally lovers.... like Romeo and Juliet. QueenBuffy 20:39, August 9, 2016 (UTC) (For some reason Eko removed this comment I wrote on your talk page?!?)
- The "Lovers" section remains. Just not for Trystane and Myrcella because they don't qualify.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 20:10, August 9, 2016 (UTC)
- Romeo and Juliet are victims of a corrupt society. Trystane and Myrcella are victims of shoddy adaptation choices and b-movie plot.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 22:10, August 9, 2016 (UTC)
Oh stop, you know they were lovers. She even told Jaime how much she loved him. They were all kissy and stuff. QueenBuffy 22:14, August 9, 2016 (UTC)
- Just askin' one more time.. can you please fix the infobox for Trystane and Myrcella? I've been working on their pages and don't understand how to fix theirs? Or why there is a block on it. Why can't you see they were lovers? Just because we didn't see them have sex, it's obvious they were in love with one another. QueenBuffy 03:27, August 14, 2016 (UTC)
Intel on Shaneymike
I hope the warning was 2-way and Shaneymike also received a warning for being a part of this spat/edit-war whatever you wanna call it. It's only just, to make sure both parties get the same punishment and then reminiscent about it so it does not happen again in the future. Thank you and I will wait for your reply Ramsay 19:52, August 9, 2016 (UTC)
It's amazing!--Gonzalo84 (talk) 16:09, August 11, 2016 (UTC)
Hello there, I'd like to ask you to lock Robb Stark page please, this is due to user Mattman15 editing Bio and saying that Jon and Sansa avenged the Red Wedding when they actually didn't! Thank you Ramsay 14:35, August 11, 2016 (UTC)
- No need to lock it, Gonzalo. For once, I agree with Eko. I've made a few edits since he last visited the page.--Shaneymike (talk) 15:59, August 11, 2016 (UTC)
- I 2nd that, Thanks Shaney Ramsay 16:06, August 11, 2016 (UTC)
Part of the first sentence to the last paragraph reads, "even before the events that caused the events of the War of the Five Kings." When you have a moment could you please change it so that it simply reads "the events that causef the War of the Five Kings"? Thanks.--Shaneymike (talk) 09:18, August 12, 2016 (UTC)
- EnglishJoker had removed the paragraph completely out of hope that it will end this once and for all.--Shaneymike (talk) 16:38, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
Before you jump to any conclusions...
You sure you don't want to change your story?  Ramsay 14:04, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
- That was from BEFORE it was locked. I wad talking about AFTER it was unlocked. Goodbye Eko.--Shaneymike (talk) 14:14, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
I don't have any issue with the edits EnglishJoker made (except for calling Ramsay an ALLY of Robb when the two never met and only interacted through Roose Bolton - but that's not grounds for blocking him). What I do have an issue with is Eko's attempt to cast Shaneymike in a bad light by linking to an edit he made BEFORE I had intervened in the discussion. And what's worse is the transparent attempt to get me to... what? block Joker and Shaney? This is is how we're gonna go now? Play the game of thrones in the wiki itself? PUH-LEASE! ... Paraphrasing Roose Bolton in A Clash of Kings: I am not a man to be used, ser. --Gonzalo84 (talk) 21:23, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
- To be perfectly honest I am dealing with some major life stuff right now, preparing for surgery actually.. just.. life changing stuff. And I don't want to come off rude, but I really don't even know where to begin with this issue. In fact, my mind is so gone I can't even understand what is going on. Sorry I couldn't be more help. I say block them all, I really don't give a shit anymore. If people can't play like adults, block them. (of course that could the sickness speaking in me lol) but you get my point. Best of wishes. I will check in soon. QueenBuffy 03:52, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
I apologize for casting Shaneymike in bad light, I was under the impression that both him abd EnglishJoker were conspiring against me and attempted to get me banned permanently. Also EnglishJoker was in the wrong to change your final line in the paragraph to which you expressed that it should stay like that with which me and Shaneymike agreed on but then a week later I saw that EnglishJoker repeated what I think was edited in the exact same sentence by Shaneymike if I remember correctly but maybe I was wrong and it wasn't Shaneymike's edit.
Once again apologies about this.
- Keep an eye on IDONTCAREWHATANYONE and his love of changing pictures to all different sizes, whatever sizes come to his mind.. for whatever reason. I told him they must be thumb (unless a vertical image needs to be made smaller)If he keeps changing and doing this, he will have to be blocked. Thanks. QueenBuffy 18:34, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
Catelyn Stark Season 6
Sorry to bug you again but from what I'm hearing it sounds like you're the only bureaucrat who doesn't have something major going on outside this wiki. Best wishes to Buffy and Dragon!
Anyway, a while back, I contacted Dragon about adding stuff from Season 4 and Season 5 to Catelyn Stark's article, and he gave me the rundown. See User:Shaneymike/Catelyn Stark. I have since written up some details from Season 6. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a look at it whenever you have a moment to spare, and adding it to her article if you think it looks good. Thanks.--Shaneymike (talk) 22:27, August 16, 2016 (UTC)
Sorry to disturb you but I'd like you to discuss the certain behavior of Shaneymike with him. I won't use any words that may upset him so I will just leave the link to more details 
I will await your reply. Thanks
Not sure If I'm writing to the right person, but I needed to reach out to someone on this wiki. I'm an admin on Gameofthrones Wiki, the Turkish version for this wiki (and it's a small community). I made an interlanguage link request yesterday, and now I can add links to the pages here on the counterpages there. Though, I'd like visitors on this wiki to see a link to my community as well, along with other languages. What should I do for that? Or can you do something about it?
Babies and Children
Unlocking House Targaryen's page.
I think that House Targaryen's page in order to add Jon being Rhaegar's son in the Season 6 section. Could that happen sometime in the future?
An old ban.
I am SVFan864,otherwise known as Kili Viliul. You had no business banning TGM troll game maester,whose real name is Anghál Aélul. I know him,b/c he comes from old money and we're friends. Retract your ban or you will face banishment yourself. I have already on TGM's page lodged an appeal but you have not replied.
- What kind of maniac threatens a Wikia Bureaucrat with a ban as blackmail to try to get him to retract a ban? Is that even physically possible? We're contacting Wikia Staff about this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:00, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
Any word from User:The Dragon Demands yet? I'm worried about him. Anyway, would you consider making User:Shaneymike an admin? I noticed he's quite active and made a lot of edits. Thoughts on this? QueenBuffy 07:04, October 13, 2016 (UTC)
- Why on earth was your IP Address blocked?! QueenBuffy 00:10, October 15, 2016 (UTC)
House Manderly Family Tree
I tried starting a tree for House Manderly by copying and pasting the text from the House Umber family tree and simply changing the text but so far it's not working. How would I go about fixing it?--Shaneymike (talk) 21:40, October 18, 2016 (UTC)
Shaneymike - Check out this webpage: http://templates.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Familytree
It will show you how to change the various characters so you get the ones you want.