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The Dragon Demands

Knight
27,757 Edits since joining this wiki
April 13, 2012
  • I live in New York City
  • My occupation is Medieval Historian
  • I am Male

Pre-Administratorship Talk-page Archive
User talk:The Dragon Demands/Archive 1

C2E2 Edit

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Werthead/GAME_OF_THRONES_WIKI_at_C2E2_Chicago

"Wikia will be hosting a panel at C2E2 in Chicago on 26 April. They're flying me in specially for the event (!) and Kristian Nairn will also be part of the panel. "

I wrote up a lot of questions for this when the Wikia Staffers asked us to submit Q&A questions. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Brian_Linder/Post_Your_Questions_for_Hodor_Actor_Kristian_Nairn http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Gcheung28/Post_Questions_for_Theon/Reek_Actor_Alfie_Allen

I was very excited that Wikia got to set up a panel with cast members like this.

I have been unable to find any major reports or video of the panel.

What was it like? Was any of our submitted Q&A answered?

I don't understand: how was this panel associated with Wikia as a topic?

How did you promote or discuss Game of Thrones Wiki at the panel? What did the cast have to say about it? (we always hope they read our stuff)

You didn't give a report on how the panel went on the wiki so I was unaware what happened. The Wikia panel was almost four months ago, and the only thing you mentioned about it on Game of Thrones Wiki before was three months ago when you loaded that photo of you with Alfie Allen (Theon Greyjoy): http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/User:Werthead?diff=134785&oldid=28401

I wasn't sure what had happened.

Then the thought occurred to check the archives of your WertZone blog, and you did give a brief report there:

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-american-trip.html
"One of the several other hats I wear is the founder and admin of the Game of Thrones Wiki, which has reached a high of 12 million hits per week during this season. Wikia, which runs the whole network, wanted me to join in a panel on the show. Initially it was just going to be myself, Jamie Hari of the Marvel and DC Database Wikis and Alfie 'Theon' Allen, but we were eventually also joined by Kristian Nairn (Hodor) and Natalia Tena (Osha). The actors were fashionably late, which left myself and Jamie to hold down the fort with several hundred fans for the opening minutes.
"The panel seemed to be successful. Alfie talked about the process of playing such a damaged character as Theon and Kristian the various ways the directors have got him to act with such restricted dialogue. Natalia talked about the importance of the TV show as a separate entity to the books and the urgent need for male/female nudity parity in the show. I mused on the fan theory that Littlefinger is turning into Batman (the voice) and we threw it out there that Joffrey had faked his own death."

This is sort of brief and I'm not sure from it how much Game of Thrones Wiki was discussed.

Will you have time to do a more detailed writeup of this event during this weekend?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 06:11, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

Adam I asked you about this over a week ago.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:17, August 24, 2014 (UTC)

The panel ended up being rushed due to a lack of firm planning. At one point we were only getting one actor and we only had all three confirmed at the last minute (Alfie in particular seemed uncertain if he was going to do it). We were also told that we were only getting all three actors for the last quarter hour or so, and then we had them for a lot longer. The decision was then made to allow the audience (which was easily 300-400 strong) to ask questions rather than firing questions at them from a long list. The actors didn't stick around for very long afterwards. So it was a bit more of an 'event hosted by Wikia' thing than an event about the Wiki in any real detail. Some fans and readers were in the audience and talked to me about the site afterwards, but we didn't get a chance to discuss the site very much with the actors.

I am also hoping to be able to visit the Wiki more often soon. Six months of both shift work and increased paid writing work in other venues has left me with almost no time whatsoever to work on the Wiki (and you will notice a significant decrease in blog activity as well, and what there has been has been rather brief). This situation looks like easing, at least somewhat, in the near future.--Werthead (talk) 18:42, August 25, 2014 (UTC)

Am I still to create the perfect wiki?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:10, August 25, 2014 (UTC)
I was invited to attend C2E2/this panel but had to cancel last minute :( I hate that I missed it! QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 15:56, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

GOT Community AppEdit

Hey, Dragon! Wikia is in the process of working on a Game of Thrones Wiki community app and we could really use your help! Would you or the other admins mind helping us curate categories for the GOT Community App? The curation lives on this page and there are instructions on there for adding/removing categories that will appear in the app itself. Let me know if you have any questions! P.S. The page says Game Guides right now but that will change eventually! Grace @Wikia (profile)•(talk) 21:30, September 5, 2014 (UTC)

Sure! Let me know if you have any questions once you've read it. This essentially is going to be a guide for users about Game of Thrones which is why we need the most important categories listed out for people that want to learn about the series through the wikia. Grace @Wikia (profile)•(talk) 18:26, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Wonky sigils, part 2 Edit

I'm at a loss as to what is causing this... but one possible fix might be to move them above the infobox, as AWoIaF does. We could even create special shield shaped versions for this purpose.--Ser Patrek (talk) 10:02, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I think I've found the answer: The files size for some of these heraldry images are simply too large, (over 1,000px in some cases) they're overloading the "name" field. Up till now I've just been resizing the wonky ones so they fit again, but now I'm seeing ones that I've already fixed have been displaced again. Obviously we can't just keep shrinking them, as eventually they'll be so small as to be indistinct. I think the solution is to create separate mini versions of the images that can fit in the infobox at their own size, without needing to be scaled down.--Ser Patrek (talk) 13:00, September 7, 2014 (UTC)
Ahh, thank you for figuring that out!!! Talk about driving me nuts! QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 15:07, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Flags and shields Edit

I'm fixing up the infobox heraldry at the moment, but I had an idea that I wanted to run by you. What if I created special flag icons that are just for articles on locations. Like so.--Ser Patrek (talk) 07:44, September 9, 2014 (UTC)
Bolton mini flag
Bolton mini flag
Well those are fun, but we don't have the "official"...tail design? for every house. Most use the foreground color (Baratheon uses black tails, Bolton uses red tails) but some use alternate colors (Starks apparently use a green tail in the TV version? Or something?)...and I'm not even sure what multi-colored ones like the Tullys would use...
(shrug) might as well use it for the ones we know like the Boltons and Baratheons, etc.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:21, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Titancon 2014 World of Ice and Fire readingEdit

Any link to a summary or something like that?--Gonzalo84 (talk) 00:52, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Starts here: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/116987-titancon-2014-world-reading/page-4

The reading was from the chapter on Aegon III the Dragonbane, which should give some hints at how the Dance of the Dragons ended.

During the first three fourths of the Dance (what TPATQ covers) Winterfell did declare for Rhaenyra, but House Dustin and House Manderly are also singled out. Keep in mind that Robb Stark could rally an army of 20,000 to head south relatively quickly...and this probably isn't all of the able-bodied men; the North is vast and a point is that it takes a while for them to rally all of their soldiers and get put on a war footing. Specifically, during the Targaryen Conquest, consider how long it took Torrhen Stark to assemble his whole army (the war was already over after the Field of Fire). Anyway, while the North did make major contributions to the war...the "Winter Wolves" led by Roderick Dustin who came south numbered only 2,000 men. This is apparently just the standing household men-at-arms they could assemble at short notice - great and professional warriors, but not every able-bodied man who could hold a spear...AND, the Winter Wolves did a LOT of damage to the Greens, vastly out of proportion to their numbers, before the last of them were killed at First Tumbleton. Cregan Stark was probably just a child at the time, because he later fought Aemon the Dragonknight some 30-40 years later, and Aemon always said he was the toughest opponent he ever faced, plus Cregan did not seem very proactive in the Dance but delegated it to commanders like Roderick (he might not have been a "child",

Anyway, Aegon III came to the throne at 11 years old, but it would be five years until he came of legal age, so a regency council was set up to rule until then - with members chose from both the Blacks and the Greens, as neither side truly won the war. Jeyne Arryn was one, the severely mutilated Tyland Lannister was another, etc.

What we found out in this reading is that:

  • Cregan Stark and the rest of the Northern army finally arrived south, but by then the war had ended (Aegon II died through as yet unknown circumstances leaving Aegon III as the only male heir). Again, the North "contributed" to the war - they sent their best hand-picked men south as "the Winter Wolves" - this was the general army of regular, less well trained but far more numerous guys (okay, this is me speculating). At any rate, Cregan and his Northern reinforcements arrive south to find the war is ended - he is not amused, nor are his bannermen, many of them sons or younger brothers of other Northerners who died earlier in the war. To appease Lord Stark, they decided to make him the new Hand of the King and Regent: he declared that he would hold trials and executions. The "trials" and executions all lasted a single day: he knew who he wanted dead so he had all of their heads on spikes in one day. He did at least give them the option to take the black as an alternative to death, and several did leave for the Wall. He was Hand and Regent it seems for a single day; the day after the executions, satisfied, he began the return journey home. Afterwards they came up with the idea to make a "Regency council" composed of seven members, chosen from both the surviving Blacks and surviving Greens.
  • Most of Cregan's army, however, stayed behind: again, many were younger second sons who were too young at the start of the war, but many still had surviving older brothers/fathers. Some swore themselves to southron lords, others became sellswords, but many became bandits - which was already a serious problem due to the breakdown in public order caused by the Dance itself.
  • Once Aegon III actually did come of legal age, the regency council transferred power back to him peacefully and without incident.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:21, September 17, 2014 (UTC)

Programming Question Edit

Hello, TDD!

I wanted to let you know that I sent you an email this evening with some general questions about *potential* future programming plans here on the GOT community. Would love to hear your thoughts when you have a moment to reply. Thanks, ser!

Brian@Wikia 02:54, September 18, 2014 (UTC)


Yup, I e-mailed back.  I have school tomorrow.  And a big family event Saturday.  Afterwards college is on two week break due to Jewish holidays.  I've been in standby mode the past two weeks because of the start of the new semester.  Plan on launching into numerous major projects within the next few days once I get into the break, please check back frequently.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:17, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

NYCC Edit

Hi, TDD! I wanted to let you know that I just sent you an email about NYCC. Please take a look and respond by the end of the day today if possible. Thanks, ser!

Brian@Wikia 21:16, September 25, 2014 (UTC)


Okay I sent a response e-mail.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:18, September 26, 2014 (UTC)

Plagiarism Edit

Hi, TDD.

Saw your note. I'm forwarding that page to the appropriate parties here. Thanks!!


Brian@Wikia 01:51, September 27, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, ser.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:29, September 27, 2014 (UTC)

Faith of the Seven brand Edit

Faith Militant mini brand

I've created a Seven-Pointed Star brand for the Faith Militant article, and a mini version for relevant character articles. Would you mind adding it to the High Sparrow article?--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 10:06, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, and though I'm sure you've already seen the WotW posts with the photos of the Faith Militant there's was a suggestion in the comments that Loras would be taking on some sort of Lancel-like role. I mean, he was dressed in all black, which he's never done before...--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 10:15, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

I think those are just Loras's bedclothes, or his undergarments; i.e. he just took his armor off, or his formal tunic off. I see no...specific reason to suspect major changes.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:44, September 28, 2014 (UTC)


...Wait, I'm not sure where to put it in the High Sparrow article. The regular "High Septon" or "Mordane" articles don't use the normal Faith of the Seven sigil anymore.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 18:59, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

Oh shit, It's worse than that. A new video of filming in Croatia shows Loras being restrained and dragged away by the Sparrows! Looks like he's being arrested for "sword swallowing". [1]. As for the brand, I think it should be okay in Faith Militant character infoboxes as they do wear the scar/brand as outward display of affiliation. Just like heraldry, but more gruesome.--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 20:10, September 28, 2014 (UTC)


.......(long pause).....oh....no......

(Jaw hanging open for a minute)

Uh...I'm hoping this isn't a major "thing" and is just an "incident" of "Faith Militant toughs rough up homosexuals at Littlefinger's brothel"....but then the regular City Watch steps in and saves him (possibly part of the same scene I hope for, since "Kissed by Fire"; Loras is in bed with Olyvar but looking annoyed, then he says he's realized he's just "drowning his sorrows" and will never love after Renly, so he wants to join the Kingsguard....then Faith Militant toughs burst in and drag him into the street...then hopefully he gets rescued and joins the Kingsguard.

Crud. This might turn out to actually be a good way to give Loras more to do...IF it has no long-term side-effects. We've never really seen, say...a Septon's sermon preaching that homosexuality is a sin, and Loras looking upset about it (which he probably did at some point in his life). So we get to see Loras facing some real discrimination, fine. So long as it has no lasting effects that drastically alter his long-term storyline.

Oh god.

Oh, you reminded me: "during the Andal Invasion, with the zeal of their new faith, the Andals would carve Seven-pointed stars into their flesh" -- that must be what the TV show is taking its cue from. Good book reference, actually. But I can't tell if they are brands or carved.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:16, September 28, 2014 (UTC)

If Loras is executed... we riot! This is a serious concern because (although we don't know what GRRM has planned for the character) it seems like he's just waiting to die on Dragonstone at the moment. I don't doubt that the seige will be cut entirely. TV-first fans don't care that Dragonstone needs to be retaken, and I can't see D&D spending time and money on a non-essential battle scene... full of expensive CGI and stunwork... not a chance! Much easier to just say that Stannis took his entire garrison North with him, and the Island is now abandoned, and then have Cersei weaken the Tyrells by having Loras arrested by the High Sparrow. We know he's having another scene with Olyvar next seasons, so presumably the arrest immediately follows this. I have no hope for Olyvar... he'll probably be killed on the spot, with Loras, as a high-born taken to the Sept of Baelor to be made an example of. Damn them!--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 11:10, September 29, 2014 (UTC)
Confirmed: The Sparrows invade Littlefinger's brothel. [2].--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 15:20, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Please ReadEdit

I've passed your message along to the appropriate people. Thanks for letting me know! Grace @Wikia (profile)•(talk) 16:42, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

Because I can. Edit

So I'm going to get on your nerves with this, but I don't care...so BAH! But can I pleaseeeee, (or can you) archive your talk page. Man, it takes awhile to scroll through 200+ messages. ;) QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 22:07, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

Entirely my fault. Yes, the "cluttered desk" I've got on here. I'll get right on it.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:41, September 29, 2014 (UTC)
Woo hoo! Not sure why that peeves me! lol QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 23:12, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Vote of No ConfidenceEdit

Hey Dragon, sorry to hear that this is happening. I've passed your message on to the appropriate people. Grace @Wikia (profile)•(talk) 21:10, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Vote of No Confidence in Adam Whitehead (Werthead) Edit

Hi The Dragon Demands. We will not be removing Adam as a panelist. He has our full support as a representative both of Wikia and Game of Thrones Wiki, and he has been very successful at that in past appearances. We are looking forward to seeing him again in New York and continuing to work with him.

If the community feels Adam shouldn't be an administrator anymore, then the community can hold a vte on that. There is a clear and established community-based process for admin removal. Wikia Staff does not get involved in that, because it is a local decision.

Finally, and most importantly, we consider your comment about asking convention security to "forcibly remove" Adam from the panel to be a threat. We have therefore contacted the convention organizers and are revoking your pass to the event. You will not be in attendance at the panel, and you will not be given a pass to enter the convention from Wikia. - Brandon Rhea@Wikia(talk) 21:44, October 7, 2014 (UTC)

email Edit

Check email please. QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 15:41, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Message received and replied. I agree fully.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:50, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Vote of no confidence on Chancellor Valorum... I mean WertheadEdit

My vote is in. I'm sorry it took me this long to answer. Been kinda busy these past weeks with my classes.--Gonzalo84 (talk) 02:44, October 11, 2014 (UTC)

The vote is in.  I love democracy.  It was with the greatest reluctance that I initiated this motion.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:46, October 11, 2014 (UTC)

New Series. Have you seen it? Edit

Hey. I was going to ask, have you seen that new Netflix/BBC series "Peaky Blinders" yet?! AWESOME series!!! QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 04:14, October 14, 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I'm pretty busy with other stuff now. I don't think their gang will cause too much trouble - until they detonate a tactical nuclear warhead, at which point even the Birmingham police, will have to sit up and take notice.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:52, October 14, 2014 (UTC)
Oh man it's good! It's like the Boardwalk Empire for England, but BETTER I think. I like that it's based loosely on RL people/events too. :) Anyway, it's only 6 episodes. Just try it sometime. QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 14:58, October 14, 2014 (UTC)

RE: GoT Personality QuizEdit

Greetings, good sir - may I ask what your picks would be for 6 fan-relatable characters with varying personalities?

Siggy4.png @@Wikia (profile)•(talk) 18:43, October 15, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure...I tried going by D&D alignment, but the characters are so complex this isn't always clear.

"Lawful" is fairly clear:

  • Lawful Good = Eddard Stark
  • Lawful Neutral = Stannis Baratheon
  • Lawful Evil = Tywin Lannister (generally; the Red Wedding verged on Neutral Evil, but he felt it was necessary to swiftly end the war)
  • Neutral Good = Daenerys Targaryen (unlike the Starks, if she thinks you're a "bad" person she won't pardon you as the honorable thing to do - she will crucify you. That's how the Targaryens have always rolled, back to Aegon I: if you're part of the program, he'll be kind to you. Oppose him, he'll burn you.)
  • Chaotic Good = "the Rebel" - fighting against the rules for a good cause (arguably Robb Stark was this, but I don't think leading a secession movement counts - his own men didn't think of him as a lone rebel). So...arguably Arya Stark.
  • Neutral Evil - not really concerned with the rules, just their own selfish ends: Littlefinger and Cersei.
  • Chaotic Evil - a raving psychopathic maniac, not even beholden to "rules" for himself. On the one hand this makes him dangerous and unpredictable, but on the other hand, makes him too unstable to make reliable long term plans (more a raving beast than "the Overlord"). Joffrey Baratheon and Ramsay Snow.

Now I'm fairly clear on the aforesaid...except for Chaotic Good, that was a bit more grey, there's no "Robin Hood" in this (well, the Brotherhood Without Banners, but they're not as prominent in the show lately). But might as well use Arya.

The next two kind of stumped me:

  • True Neutral and Chaotic Neutral = The Outsider and the Nomad, as they say. True Neutral is concerned purely with his own interests, while the Chaotic Neutral is actively rebelling against any forms of control.

The problem is that the distinction between True Neutral and Chaotic Neutral is kind of subtle. Chaotic Neutral actively revolts against any rules, craving their nomadic freedom; True Neutrals are so concerned on basic survival and avoiding getting involved that they'll put up with rules and structures so long as they don't particularly affect them. Han Solo at the beginning of Star Wars is True Neutral, while Jack Sparrow is Chaotic Neutral (openly stating that he lives as a pirate because being on a ship in the ocean not beholden to any laws is the ultimate freedom).

Tyrion is sort of True Neutral because he's just worried about survival. He doesn't particularly care for rules but also frowns on breaking them, he's altruistic when he can be but also can do some fairly self-serving things (at times he's verging on Neutral Good). Meanwhile, Sandor Clegane is now closest to Chaotic Neutral, focusing purely on his own survival...though arguably that's True Neutral, because he hates rules but usually isn't bothered by them if they don't get in his way. Jaime Lannister, also, kind of True Neutral verging on Chaotic Neutral - he doesn't want to claim the throne, rejects positions of authority, all he wanted in life was to be with the woman he loved - and good or evil, lawful or chaotic, anything that stands in his way he'll (grudgingly) get rid of -- though living through the Mad King's court has made him hate people who are outright evil or chaotic, pushing him back into the True Neutral camp.

This doesn't even cover the whole Margaery-Cersei dichotomy (Cersei is rude and blunt and hates "women", wishing she were born a man, while Margaery tries to use the carrot instead of the stick, and "manipulate" people by giving them things they actually want, and embracing her femininity to seduce people).

That's all I have at the moment. The problem is that many of the characters are so grey and nuanced.

--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:35, October 15, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox heraldry Edit

It's happening again. I'm afraid we're going to have to either A: remove the heraldry entirely... or B: remodel our infoboxes so they use the same coding makeup as the ones from AWoIaF. Neither choice is particularly appealing, but I can't see any other option.--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 09:19, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

...Crud.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:49, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

Those damn things have never worked for me, and I am sick of the wonky banners! lol Have we ever asked Wikia for help in this matter? QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 23:56, October 18, 2014 (UTC)
I sent them a special contact request months ago and never heard anything back. Chist, look at Tommen's and Maegor's! I've had to shrink them down to 10px! You can barely see them... it's not worth it. There may be a simpler solution: moving the sigils above the infoboxes, and using margin code to make them align. That would be a less extreme option than remodelling the actual templates, but I have no idea if it will work. Let me tinker with it, I'll see if I can rig something up.--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 09:04, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, this is what I've got so far... it's a crude solution, and it will be pretty inconvenient adding it to every page. I don't know what else to suggest.--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 10:37, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

...looks like the best that can be done. We've been spending too much time fiddling around with the icons inside the infoboxes, and haven't gotten much further. Thanks.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:43, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Righto. It may be possible to incorporate this coding into a template. Something like this:

{{Heraldry |Right shield=Lannister Left shield = Kingsguard

--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 16:53, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Rollback editor Edit

Hey TDD. Just a quick thing I wanted to run by you. User:Lorisa214 is someone I have worked with for awhile, and I know her as admin on a couple of other Wiki's. She was requesting "Rollback" rights, and I don't have a problem with it, but I wanted to pass it by you and get your thoughts. We could maybe do a 30 day probationary period and if all goes OK, just leave her with the rights. Thoughts? QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 23:55, October 18, 2014 (UTC)

1 - Yes. 2 - While inappropriate now, if/when Bureaucrat vote succeeds, we need to start listing/discussing new Admins to promote, 3 - Lorisa214 proved to be a reliable editor in Season 3 - though understandably she wasn't really around much in Season 4, due to running Reign Wiki, 4 - IF she is willing to put in the time commitment, she could be an Admin candidate, 5 - I would openly pursue an affirmative action policy to make as many female Admins as we can, to try to balance things out (to be honest the only other prominent potential female candidate is RachelP...also from Australia). Well we'll discuss this more later. Specifically what is the extent/function of Rollback rights?--The Dragon Demands (talk) 00:00, October 19, 2014 (UTC)
It just allows them to instantly undo changes to an article with a single click.--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 09:04, October 19, 2014 (UTC)
Oh okay. Does that mean Rollbacks on protected pages too? (Though if it's only a rollback, even that can't drastically change too much that we can't just restore later).--The Dragon Demands (talk) 15:44, October 19, 2014 (UTC)
I don't think they can edit articles that are protected to "admin only", no.--Ser Patrek, the Wolfskinner Ser Patrek mini shield 16:53, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I just look at the Rollback feature as something for trusted editors to use. It makes editing/undoing things quicker and simpler. Any word on when our bureau rights come into effect? What is the latest with that? QueenBuffy35 Crown New Red 19:01, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Oh fine, then, give Rollback rights to any trusted editors (It's like an extension of "Undo" I see).

As for Bureaucrat rights...they said we had to hold a vote, so I started the vote. Then, to make sure it was legit, I sent Talk messages to all users with over 100 edits (by going down a list) as you may have seen last week. Not necessarily everyone, but I made sure to message a couple of dozen people, accounting for most anyone with a stake in things.

...I do not know how long the vote needs to last, exactly, but I think "One Week" sounds standard. Which would be around midnight tomorrow night. So my basic plan was to wait another...9 plus 24 = 33 hours or so, until after midnight Monday, and only then try to contact Wikia Staff again and point out "We've had the vote open for a week, that seems to be standard voting time, I think the vote is finished unless you insist otherwise" etc.

Yeah, so tomorrow night at midnight was when I was going to bring up the issue.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 19:14, October 19, 2014 (UTC)

Bracket TournamentEdit

Here's another one for you -

I'm working on a list of 32 characters - who are not deceased as of the Season 4 finale - for the bracket tournament. Having trouble rounding out the 32, they don't so much need to be plausible as having a shot at the iron throne, but as having fans who would wish they could sit upon it. Also, this isn't necessarily a literal "fight" for the throne, but more like who's most likely to "fight, scheme, or claw" their way to it. This is ignoring such things as the fact that members of the knights watch *should* be ruled out, since obviously there are those who would vote for Jon & even Sam. However, characters like Gilly or Missandei for instance... probably don't belong on the list as it's too far of a stretch. Therein lies my problem, once all the obvious & main characters are on the list, I'm having trouble coming up with enough to make the full 32. Since you are far more familiar with the secondary characters than I am, can you help me finish (and update, feel free to nix anyone you see fit) this list?

Here's who I have so far, we just need an even 32:

  • Tyrion Lannister
  • Cersei Lannister
  • Daenerys Targaryen
  • Arya Stark
  • Jon Snow
  • Sansa Stark
  • Jorah Mormont
  • Jaime Lannister
  • Theon Greyjoy
  • Bran Stark
  • Petyr Baelish
  • Varys
  • Brienne of Tarth
  • Bronn
  • Gendry
  • Margaery Tyrell
  • Stannis Baratheon
  • Mance Rayder
  • Davos Seaworth
  • Melisandre
  • Balon Greyjoy
  • Tormund Giantsbane
  • Samwell Tarly
  • Ramsay Bolton
  • Daario Naharis
  • Gregor Clegane

Thank you in advance, good sir!

Siggy4.png @@Wikia (profile)•(talk) 01:17, October 21, 2014 (UTC)


Well, because I'm all about being thorough, the 32 I'd list based on "plausibility" include:

Daenerys, Stannis, Shireen, Gendry, Tommen, Myrcella.

Myrcella's cool, but she only really comes to the fore in later books - matching when she returns in Season 5. Martin planned these books out in advance: Tommen, Myrcella, and Rickon Stark were nobodies in Season 1, but he knew the story would stretch on for years and that they'd grow into major figures later. Basically...out of Tywin's three children, it was Tyrion who inherited his extreme intellect. Similarly, in the next Lannister generation...Myrcella inherited all of the smarts. She's basically Tyrion's intellect and respect for the downtrodden (from being abused by Joffrey for years), but with the looks of a young teenaged Cersei. Characters in Dorne remark on how she's smarter than most adults they know, and are baffled that Cersei all but ignored the one of her children best suited to be a monarch (the irony being that Cersei is angry that her own father Tywin ignored her to focus on Jaime...then she did the exact same thing to her own children, focusing on Joffrey to the exclusion of her other two children. Reap as you sow, really.

But that's just rival claimants and stuff. Broadening the term we get "sit on the Iron Throne" in the generic sense of "controls the throne", which goes on to include Littlefinger, Varys, Olenna and Margaery Tyrell.

So there's 11 right there. I'd say "Cersei" but she's kind of ruling through Tommen right now but...screw it, put in Cersei: a question of "will Tommen ever overcome Cersei's domination?". That gives us 12.

Jaime refused the throne numerous times, he doesn't even want to be Hand of the King. Should put Tyrion in though...he's a "faction" unto himself now, but without saying much, he may have fled for now but his idea is to side with Cersei's enemies because it will be easier to take down the Lannisters if they have a rival Lannister heir to put in charge of Casterly Rock in her place. Bronn, of course, I say with all sincerity, deserves a spot on the list: he's gone from wandering mercenary to a member of the minor nobility; now he just has to get rid of his wife's older sister and he'll be Lord of Stokeworth. At the rate he's going...so that gives us 14.

Sansa Stark is slowly but surely turning into her own "faction" trying to dominate the realm - for the moment by siding with Littlefinger, but she's starting to "play the game" of politics in the Vale. 15.

I would insist on putting Arianne Martell on the list for...reasons. Not that she's been cast yet, but of the Dornish characters angling for the throne...bringing us to the halfway point, at 16.

...I would put the Boltons/Freys on, because in the books...well, Lady Ryswell remarks on the Boltons and Freys taking part in the Red Wedding, and why someone as smart as Roose would think he could get away with something like that - they had Lannister backing. Similarly, Cersei and the Lannisters are now trying to distance themselves from their erstwhile Frey/Bolton allies, because they're the ones that literally got blood on their hands. So they want to blame the Freys and Boltons for being the ones who broke guest right....but Lady Ryswell says that she thinks Roose's plan all along was to turn it around and blame the Red Wedding on the Lannisters, accurately pointing out that it was the Lannisters who "gave the orders" to do it...and somehow Roose intends to manipulate this and turn it around to declare Northern independence yet again...just under Bolton kings. Meanwhile, Ramsay's a psychopath, but he's Roose's only living son, and Roose privately admits that Ramsay will kill any new children he fathers with Fat Walda rather than see a rival heir -- and there's little Roose can or will do to stop him, because he feels that "child heirs are the death of Great Houses" -- which is becoming very apparent with the young boy-king Tommen -- so he's settling for the lesser of two evils, and grooming Ramsay as his heir as best he can...to the North certainly, to a Bolton-ruled kingdom of the North? Possibly.

Bringing us up to 18.

I don't think Mance is a good choice because he's kind of beaten at this point, same with Tormund. Similarly, Jorah's an outcast. Daario doesn't make much more sense...unless you mean in the sense that he'd be Daenerys's consort?... Gregor Clegane doesn't make much sense, he's kind of unconscious now and not really ruling before that.

Davos and Melisandre kind of make sense in the meaning of "who will functionally rule through Stannis?" (like the angel and demon on his shoulders). Bringing us to 20.

I suppose you could put Tycho Nestoris, in the sense of "whoever the Iron Bank of Braavos wants, the realm is bankrupt, Tycho can pretty much choose kings at this point"

Bran has kind of removed himself from the equation at this point...I'd put Rickon in his place because they sort of obviously set up that Rickon is "the surviving male Stark heir" now that Bran is gone.

...getting ahead of ourselves, but if we count Season 5 stuff...the High Sparrow. Readers will know what we mean. 23.

...frankly you can keep Jon Snow on the list, due to the whole L+R=J...thing...

Major points:

Really need to include Shireen and Myrcella. Myrcella is huge in Season 5.

...include Arianne Martell.

If you include Theon, you need to include Yara Greyjoy. Now that Theon is given up for dead, there's this subplot that the ironborn are jockeying for position to be Balon's heir; some say Yara should be Queen of the Iron Islands after Balon, other traditionalists say a woman shouldn't rule and want to make one of Balon's younger brothers king.

If you include Ramsay Bolton you should really include Roose Bolton too.

...you didn't include Olenna or Margaery Tyrell. They're very, very important.

Your list has 25 and you needed 7 more:

  • Shireen Baratheon
  • Myrcella Baratheon
  • Margaery Tyrell
  • Olenna Tyrell
  • Yara Greyjoy
  • Roose Bolton
  • Arianne Martell
  • Tycho Nestoris
  • Rickon Stark

Probably shouldn't include Mance, Tormund, and Gregor.

...I don't know, substitute with "the High Sparrow", "Walder Frey", and "White Walker leader" (from "Oathkeeper")

That's the best I've got for now.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:46, October 21, 2014 (UTC)

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